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  • Need help with Joseph Franklin and Rohoda

    I have a 'brickwall' branch in my tree.
    William Franklin and Mary Ann Trayler had a son called Edwin Alfred JOSEPH Franklin, who was born 09 Jul 1869 Dungannon Tyrone Co, Ireland.

    William, Mary and the whole family returned to England in the mid 1870's

    I have found Edwin used his name of Joseph in census etc.
    On the 1901 census, he is in tottenham with wife Rohoda and son Joseph (born c1900 in Tottenham). and in 1908 they had a daughter May Phillis registered in Romford.

    What I have been unable to find any marriage record for 'Joseph' and Rohoda
    A fellow researcher has also tried, but found none.
    I wonder if our group of genealogy puzzlers could use lateral thinking to find the information?

    Many thanks
    Trev
    Avatar is my Gt Grandfather

    Researching:
    FRANKLIN (Harrow/Pinner 1700 to 1850); PURSGLOVE (ALL Southern counties of England); POOLE (Tetbury/Malmesbury and surrounding areas of Gloucestershire and Wiltshire (1650 to 1900); READ London/Suffolk

  • #2
    Can't see anything obvious.

    However, if you get the BC of one of the children, that will at least give you Rhoda's maiden name.

    OC

    Comment


    • #3
      How sure are you that it's Rohoda as the first name, and where was Joseph in the 1891 census? There's this on freebmd for West Ham:

      Marriages Jun 1893 (>99%)
      Caulfield Arthur W. Ham 4a 273
      Franklin Edwin W. Ham 4a 273
      Reader Rosetta Minnie W. Ham 4a 273
      Webb Susan Jane W. Ham 4a 273

      If you can find the Arthur and Susan Jane together on a later census then I'd say this one is worth investigating.

      Kate x

      Comment


      • #4
        We must be psychic Kate....found the same one and that`s exactly what I thought...:D allan
        Allan ......... researching oakes/anyon/standish/collins/hartley/barker/collins-cheshire
        oakes/tipping/ellis/jones/schacht/...garston, liverpool
        adams-shropshire/roberts-welshpool
        merrick/lewis/stringham/nicolls-herefordshire
        coxon/williamson/kay/weaver-glossop/stockport/walker-gorton

        Comment


        • #5
          Hee hee!

          There are also no Rhoda's marrying a Franklin during the relevant time period according to freebmd, so that eliminates the obvious mistranscription of the first name. With some judicious searching I did manage to find Joseph sr, Joseph jr and May Phylis on the 1911 census in Romford, Essex in an 'Institution' schedule type. I couldn't find anything feasible for a 'R*a' in the same place though,

          Kate x

          Comment


          • #6
            did they have any more after May ?

            When/where was his wife born - sorry cant access ancestry at the moment

            Births Dec 1872
            Reader Rosetta Minnie Whitechapel 1c 349

            There is a Sheila & a Ronald born in the early 30's in Romford Franklin, MMN Reader

            Do they ring any bells?

            There is a suspect IRIS and SHIRLEY too
            Last edited by Jessbowbag; 09-08-09, 09:24.
            Jess

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            • #7
              It's a no-go on the marriages we found - Arthur Caulfield crops up in 1901 with wife Rosetta M. and Edwin Franklin is present with Susan J. Back to the drawing board!
              Last edited by Kate P; 09-08-09, 09:38.

              Comment


              • #8
                Note that Rhoda and Rose(tta) are much the same name, being Greek and modern versions of the same word.

                Christine
                Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Christine in Herts View Post
                  Note that Rhoda and Rose(tta) are much the same name, being Greek and modern versions of the same word.
                  Swot! :p:p
                  Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Uncle John View Post
                    Swot! :p:p
                    Sorry! :o

                    I just find snippets like that interesting - how languages link together - or are different. And I like being able to get an idea of what's meant by an engraving, or whatever - or, if I can't make an accurate translation, at least I might be able to make a stab at what it's about.

                    I've never studied Russian, for instance, but, having done Maths, I know what the Greek alphabet looks like - how the letters sound - and the Cyrillic alphabet starts from the Greek one, and then has extra letters. So then you speak the sounds aloud, and realise that what you're saying sounds like something else... perhaps something you know - and that teaches you another of the odd letters.

                    Christine
                    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have been searching around and have some more information;

                      Birth record
                      FRANKLIN, Edwin Alfred Joseph Birth
                      Gender: Male
                      Birth Date: 9 Jul 1869
                      Birthplace: 590, Dungannon, Tyr, Ire

                      Recorded in: Tyrone, Ireland

                      Collection: Civil Registration
                      Father: William FRANKLIN
                      Mother: Mary Anne TRAYLER
                      Source: FHL Film 101190 Dates:
                      1869 - 1870

                      ######

                      On 1901 census
                      Tottenham Middlesex
                      Franklin< Joseph Male 33 1868 Bricklayer County Tyron Ireland
                      Franklin< Joseph Male 1 1900 Tottenham
                      Franklin Rohoda 21 1880 London

                      ####

                      1911 census has Joseph (1868) in Romford Union Workhouse and Infirmary
                      1 OLDCHURCH ROAD ROMFORD

                      Also on same section is a May C Franklin age 3

                      ###

                      Joseph died 1915 BMD Romford Jun 4a 442.

                      Wildcard searches etc have turned up nothing, so it looks like the only way is to purchase the birth cert of their son Joseph.
                      I suspect that they may not even have married, but she used his surname?

                      But that could be expensive, as there are a number of possible births for their son:

                      Births Mar 1899 (>99%)
                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Franklin Joseph Edwin Pancras 1b 27

                      Births Mar 1900
                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Franklin Joseph W. Ham 4a 166
                      Franklin Joseph Lulham Edmonton 3a 397
                      Last edited by TrevorFranklin; 10-08-09, 11:27. Reason: error in spelling of wife first name
                      Avatar is my Gt Grandfather

                      Researching:
                      FRANKLIN (Harrow/Pinner 1700 to 1850); PURSGLOVE (ALL Southern counties of England); POOLE (Tetbury/Malmesbury and surrounding areas of Gloucestershire and Wiltshire (1650 to 1900); READ London/Suffolk

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Easiest way will definately be to get a cert, as a personal choice for Joseph's I would plump for the 1899 one as the most likely and you could request a reference check on fathers name including Joseph for example. But why not get May Phyllis's instead - there's only one possibility for her. Did you see that I managed to find both Joseph jr and May Phylis in the workhouse too? There was nothing whatsoever for Rhoda though. Think you're stuck with getting a birth cert, money well spent if it's a real brickwall.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Trevor - Tottenham comes under the Edmonton registration district.
                          Sue

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thinking about what Sue's said, and given that the date of the 1901 census was 31 March, then the 1899 child would in fact be aged 2 when the census was taken, so Joseph Lulham in Edmonton would be the best bet. Still think May Phylis's is the way to go though I wonder if Lulham gives us some clues to the mother's side? Hmm, maybe not, no Lulham's marrying Franklin's according to freebmd anyway.
                            Last edited by Kate P; 10-08-09, 21:39.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Have you searched Seax - essex archives?



                              incidently I have a Marie Franklin born Cranham c 1803. Cranham is about 4 miles from Romford so maybe they came to family
                              Jean



                              To forget your ancestors is to be a brook without a source, a tree without a root....

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Kate P View Post
                                Thinking about what Sue's said, and given that the date of the 1901 census was 31 March, then the 1899 child would in fact be aged 2 when the census was taken, so Joseph Lulham in Edmonton would be the best bet. Still think May Phylis's is the way to go though I wonder if Lulham gives us some clues to the mother's side? Hmm, maybe not, no Lulham's marrying Franklin's according to freebmd anyway.
                                I looked at the Lulham connection too but didn't find anything. Interestingly there is a death in 1903 of a 2yr old Rhoda Phyllis Franklin in West Ham. BUT the only birth is in Devon 1st qtr 1901 but she doesn't appear on the census. It probably isn't relevant but kind of intriguing though....
                                Sue

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Rhoda + Phyllis + Franklin, located in W Ham? There has got to be something there, neither Rhoda nor Phyllis are that common, and combined with surname and location?! I've got a Rose Franklin born mar qtr 1901 in Edmonton, nope found her with diff parents.

                                  Isn't it funny how spending time on other people's brick walls becomes far more attractive than your own :D

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Kate P View Post
                                    ...

                                    Isn't it funny how spending time on other people's brick walls becomes far more attractive than your own :D
                                    I justify it as honing my skills, ready to battle anew! :D

                                    Christine
                                    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      It's been a long time since this thread was picked up and I have just joined Family Tree Forum. Phylis May's daughter is my sister in law, she lives in New Zealand and would love to make contact with Trevor.
                                      Last edited by Elaine ..Spain; 16-07-13, 10:37. Reason: email address removed

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by N K Watson View Post
                                        It's been a long time since this thread was picked up and I have just joined Family Tree Forum. Phylis May's daughter is my sister in law, she lives in New Zealand and would love to make contact with Trevor.
                                        Sorry, have removed your email address as we don't allow them on the open forum.
                                        I am sure Trevor will make contact either by posting on this thread or via our private messaging system ... or both!
                                        Elaine







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