The Winner of Who Do We Think You Are....30th July is ...

[Barbara Dodds]

Gortonboy


Well done.

I hope you get a few brick walls demolished

[gortonboy]

brickwall

wow!! thanks,,,i have a real hadrian of a brickwall,,,will post it tommorow. thanks again.:D

[Val and George]

Congratulations and good luck, I hope it all comes tumbling down for you

[gortonboy]

Gortonboy


Well done.

I hope you get a few brick walls demolished

hi,,where exactly do i post my brickwall ?:D

[Barbara Dodds]

On here


just keep addng posts (as above) - so your next post should be your first brick wall


Hope that helps

[Darksecretz]

hi,,where exactly do i post my brickwall ?:D

on this thread... post away any problems you have on here and then we will hopefully try and help you dissolve that brickwall..

good luck!

[gortonboy]

Competion winner-my brickwall

Hi,,,great to have your undivided attention for my brickwall,,its a real Hadrian !!!!

Here goes----

My gt gt grandmother is Florence Smith {i can hear the groans already,but bear with me !},,,she was born in 1858 in Manchester.
The earliest census i can find her on is the 1871 {RG10/4046/29/15},,,She is living with her parents John Smith b 1831 {more groans!} and Margaret Smith b 1833. Also in the household are her brothers John Thomas b 1862,Alfred b 1866,William{Wright} b 1869 and her uncle Thomas b 1835.
they are residing at 19 Ancoats street.

I have Florence covered in all the following census returns,right up to 1911.

In the 1881 census she is now married to Frank Timperley {RG11/3500/60/5}
You will see that she is living with her 2 children and her 3 siblings.
So,,i have deduced that her father has died,,and when Florence got married she took her siblings with her to live with her and her husband.
{i have her mother widowed living as a boarder in the 1881 census}

On her marriage certificate for oct 1880 she has her name as Florence Eymes Smith....and the space for her fathers name is left blank.
The brickwall is this.....
I cannot find a John Smith,Margaret Smith,Florence Smith in the 1861 census.
I cannot find a birth for a Florence Smith in Manchester.

However there is this family in the 1861 RG09/2961/63/15
There is a John Smith living with a Margaret Smith as boarders with a family called Moorhouse,,,also with them is a child called Florence Haines.
the ages for John,Margaret and Florence are ok,,Johns profession is the same as in the 1871 census,,Margaret works in the cotton industry ,,as she does in the 1881 census. The only thing wrong or not as it should be is that John is listed as born Hyde,cheshire.

Apart from my two questions above,,what do you think to the theory that maybe this is the family,,and that maybe she is illigitimate,,and haines could be her mothers maiden name ?
Her marriage certificate is the only place the name Eymes appears,,,could it be that the registrar misheard Haines as EYMES ?

A LOT TO THINK ABOUT,,,ALL OPINIONS AND COMMENTS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.

Any further questions ,,,fire away...many thanks....Mike.

[Olde Crone Holden]

What about this marriage?

Margaret Hames
to
John Smith
1861 Manchester Cathedral.

Cannot find Florence as Hames, unless she had a middle name at birth?

OC

[hughar]

How about March qtr 1858, Chorlton, Vol.8c, p489 for the birth of Florence Mary Smith? Have you checked that?

[gortonboy]

What about this marriage?

Margaret Hames
to
John Smith
1861 Manchester Cathedral.

Cannot find Florence as Hames, unless she had a middle name at birth?

Thanks for that one,,,i had just started to try to crack this one and last night had posted the same querie on another site. This reference was suggested there also,,,,,will check this one out,,,thank you.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Looks like you have found the correct family in 1861.

Florence's birth may not have been registered as it wasn't compulsory in 1858. However I would expect her to be baptised and the IGI isn't showing anything, but ManCath baptisms aren't complete on IGI.

OC

[Night Owl]

There's a Q/E March 1858 birth for Florence Ams in Chorlton. I can't find her anywhere else. Could this be another spelling of Eymes / Haines / Hames?

[kylejustin]

i think the census for haines was just misheard for hames. and likewise, i think the english dont prounounce the 'h' like americans and 'umans'? so it would sound like aymes/eymes when the 'h' is silent.

[Olde Crone Holden]

And people who live in Manchester definitely don't pronounce their "H"s (or they add one in front of a vowel, for luck, lol). Also, if you write Hames, in curly writing, it is indistinguishable from Haines.

I reckon Night Owl has found her. That looks very promising.

OC

[anniern]

I remember on rootschat trying to find a family of Bristol Hares only to find they had moved to London and become Eyres, I think you have the right family in 1861.

[gortonboy]

an update...i purchased the john smith --margaret hames marriage cert,,,,,,,,it was the couple in the 1861 census living with florence haines !!!! so i now i am pretty confident that the census enumerator misheard florences surname,,,,and put haines instead of hames,,,,,,,,,,,,,after looking at every possibility of a birth,,,i have ordered the florence ams birth cert,,,the year is correct,,,the district is correct,,,so heres hoping the cert tells me her mother was a margaret,,with no father named,,,,then i will finally have cracked it....just goes to show you gotta buy the certs to prove things,,,,,thanks for the suggestions,,,,its looking like they were the correct ones,,,,,will let you know in a week or so what the birth cert said,,,,,cheers.

[gortonboy]

and the wall came tumbling down.....................florence ams mother was Margaret...no father !!!!!!!!! a massive thank you to you all.

[Night Owl]

Thanks for the update - its nice to hear when all the pieces of a jigsaw fall into place ;D

[gortonboy]

thanks jackie...i wish i had ordered the certs when first suggested,,,,,,but had other things to sort out.....thanks for finding the florence ams reference,,,it was the right one after all....really made my day when i got it,,,cheers,,Mike.

[gortonboy]

What about this marriage?

Margaret Hames
to
John Smith
1861 Manchester Cathedral.

Cannot find Florence as Hames, unless she had a middle name at birth?

OC

thanks for this...it was the right one,,,,,,my brickwall finally came tumbling down. Cheers,,Mike.