My Cole Brickwall

[greybird]

Hello

I am still trying, after some time to surmount this particular brickwall, in spite of some willing, but unsuccessful replies on GR some time ago. I'm hoping one of you might be able to suggest something.

My g.g.g.grandfather was John Cole, gunsmith in Devizes, Wiltshire. He was married to Dinah Neate in Southbroom Devizes, in 1815. IGI shows him as "of Stert born around 1789".
However, I have the parish record CD for Stert and there are no Coles on it, so I have assumed he was simply resident there at the time of his marriage, and I cannot see any way to establish where else he might have been born.

I have eliminated a John Cole born in Laycock Wilts in 1789 (he married someone different and stayed in Laycock).

There are other John Coles who might be right, and one for whom there is a very flimsy possibility. John Cole born in Chippenham (not far from Devizes) in 1791, son of Thomas and Elizabeth had a brother, Daniel born 1788.
My John Cole died in 1835 (I have his will), and by 1841 his widow had remarried Thomas Lott and was running the gunmaking business in Northgate St. Devizes. If you look at the nextdoor premises on the 1841 - actually round the corner, the head of houshold is a Daniel Cole, publican, of about the right age. Might brothers have lived next door to each other?

Do you think I'm doomed to mere speculation on this, or is there any way I can possibly pin him down? I live in hope!

[margaretmarch]

Hello

I am still trying, after some time to surmount this particular brickwall, in spite of some willing, but unsuccessful replies on GR some time ago. I'm hoping one of you might be able to suggest something.

My g.g.g.grandfather was John Cole, gunsmith in Devizes, Wiltshire. He was married to Dinah Neate in Southbroom Devizes, in 1815. IGI shows him as "of Stert born around 1789".
However, I have the parish record CD for Stert and there are no Coles on it, so I have assumed he was simply resident there at the time of his marriage, and I cannot see any way to establish where else he might have been born.

I have eliminated a John Cole born in Laycock Wilts in 1789 (he married someone different and stayed in Laycock).

There are other John Coles who might be right, and one for whom there is a very flimsy possibility. John Cole born in Chippenham (not far from Devizes) in 1791, son of Thomas and Elizabeth had a brother, Daniel born 1788.
My John Cole died in 1835 (I have his will), and by 1841 his widow had remarried Thomas Lott and was running the gunmaking business in Northgate St. Devizes. If you look at the nextdoor premises on the 1841 - actually round the corner, the head of houshold is a Daniel Cole, publican, of about the right age. Might brothers have lived next door to each other?

Do you think I'm doomed to mere speculation on this, or is there any way I can possibly pin him down? I live in hope!

I think it's highly possible that brothers would live near each other and the fact that they are both in business on their own account would be a factor in favour of a connection.
However I would look to see if I could find Thomas and Elizabeth to see if I could get an occupation for Thomas as it would be quite usual for a son to follow in his father's footsteps.
Also have you tracked Daniel any further to see if anyone in his household is connected to your John, sometimes children are farmed out with relatives etc.
Margaret

[maudarby]

Hi
I think it would be a good idea to get a copy of the marriage entry from the parish register. The info "of Stert born around 1789" from the IGI has been submitted & the info may be correct but the birth year may just be a guess, unless his age was given which I very much doubt. The entry will also give you the witnesses names which may be relatives. It will also tell you if they married by banns or licence. If they married by licence & it still exists this may give some added info & the name of the bondsman may also be a relative.
What other names are mentioned in his will i.e beneficiaries, witnesseses, executor etc.
Moggie

[jean]

on freereg there is
John Cole baptised 1/1/1787 St James the Great Dauntsey Wilts
parents Thomas and Ann

possible siblings Thomas & William

[greybird]

Cole brick wall

Hello Margaret

Unfortunately, Daniel died in 1846 and by the 1851 only his widow and the youngest son were at that address, so I can't get a place of birth for Daniel. There doesn't seem to have been any crossover of children in the households. How would I go about finding an occupation for Thomas? I found a Robert Cole, gunmaker in Chapel Street Devizes in a trade directory but have not been able to find him on any census, so it may just have been a business premises. He may have been a brother or even cousin.

[jean]

Pigots trade directory for wiltshire 1830 have the following
Cole Dnl Devizes799
Cole John Devizes800
Cole Thomas Malmesbury804
Cole William Salisbury812
Cole Wm Chippenham

[maudarby]

Hi
Just found the marriage listed on FreeReg.
No witnesses listed & it gives Groom's Abode as "sojourner" I've never seen this before but guess it means he was just stopping there temporarily.
Moggie

[greybird]

Hi Jean and Maudarby - thank you all for your interest! Jean, that was one of my possibilities. Maudarby - how do I get a copy of the parish record - do I need to get another CD? The one I have has only baptisms. My local history centre (in Staines) has closed.

The executors of his will are James Bullock, Grocer of Devizes and Richard Scott, Gardener of Devizes Green. The witnesses are Wm. Bowler, Surgeon Devizes and HJ Hall Clerk to solicitor, Devizes

[greybird]

Hi

yours answers are coming so thick and fast, I'm not keeping up with them! Jean, does it say what the occupations are in Pigots?

[jean]

unfortunately not on the site I looked at, just a list of names entered. I will see what else I can find

[maudarby]

Hi
I wouldn't go to the expence of getting a CD of the marriages because I doubt if you will get all the info you need. If you contact the Wiltshire Record Office I am sure they will do a copy of the entry. Not sure how much they will charge. You could also ask them that if the entry shows that they were married by licence, how you would go about getting a copy of this.
Moggie

[greybird]

I will certainly contact the Wiltshire Record Office - I didn't know they would do this.

[jean]

also have a look on the wiki
Wiltshire - Family Tree Forum

[greybird]

Have just emailed Wiltshire Records Office - fingers crossed!

[greybird]

Sorry - had to go and do boring things! Jean, I hadn't looked at the Wiki before - the Wiltshire Forum looks as if it will keep me busy for some time to come!

[greybird]

Hi

Have just received the copy of the parish register entry from Wiltshire Archives (very reasonable £5 charge). Unfortunately it says only what Maudarby quoted from FreeReg, except that there are witnesses - Charles Neate and Jn. Bishop. Very nice to have though, because it has the bride and groom's signatures.

So, back to square one, speculating on where John Cole might have been born! I very much appreciate your efforts to help.

[jean]

That was quick response from wilts. archives. I am sure more learned members with ancestry subscription can take this further

[Darksecretz]

backtracking a little bit here,.... might it be an idea to get the will of Daniel? (if he left one) that way it might give you some information that you can cross ref with Johns will and see if anything tallies?? might confirm/deny IF they were actual Brothers?

[clematised]

I know someone on another board with Coole in Bristol, and she found it difficult researching the name as it jumped to so many different spellings including Cole so give the spelling variants a try.

Edna

[greybird]

I hadn't thought of checking for a will for Daniel - will have a look at that one. There do seem to be variations of Cole in Wiltshire, but mostly Coles (as opposed to Cole). The trouble is that the more variations I get, the more possibilities there are! My worst case scenario would be if he came from outside Wiltshire!