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  • Tracking illegitimates?

    Hi all, I introduced myself on the newbie thread and am plunging straight in - would value any and all help on this! It’s very long, but I’m giving all the info I have, in the hope that it’s useful.

    I found a wonderfully indignant contemporary newspaper article about my (married!) 3xg-grandfather who was successfully pursued for a maintenance order as part of an ‘affiliation case’, in 1875. Despite the ‘shocking immorality’ and ‘improper intimacy’ (honestly, it could be straight from the Daily Mail :D) the lady in question is nonetheless awarded her order for 5 shillings a week. Lord only knows what his wife thought of it all…

    Anyway, there are a number of specific details mentioned but none so definite as to be able to subsequently identify and trace the children. The gentleman in question is Joseph Stockton born 1834 in Wolstanton, Staffordshire. The woman he was frequenting was Lydia White born 1851, Yoxall, Staffs. In the report of the case Lydia says that she has had a previous illegitimate by a Mr Gee (no dates), and that her sister had also had a child with Joseph Stockton ‘about six years ago’.

    I’m particularly interested in trying to trace Joseph’s two children. I have been able to find Lydia quite easily on the censuses and in 1871 she is living in Yoxall with her mother Mary White, and a 3 year old child, Herbert White, who is listed as Mary’s grandson. The obvious interpretation is that this is Lydia’s child but I think it is in fact her sister’s child by Joseph Stockton, given the coincidence of dates from the newspaper article. However there is no real clue as to who the mother/sister is – in 1861 Lydia is still at home with both parents but there are three other sisters present, two of whom could easily be the mother.

    I’ve found the (?) bmd ref for Herbert White (Dec Q 1867, Lichfield 6b 372) but I can’t find any trace of him on the 1881 census - I was hoping this would show him possibly with his mother. Lydia is out in service up in Yorkshire. The only real possibility is a Herbert White born 1868, who is listed as an orphan living in the All Saint’s Boys Orphanage, Lewisham London; with a birthplace listed simply as Middlesex, London. This is interesting because I believe that my Herbert marries and spends the rest of his life in Islington, London – he is present on the remaining censuses and lists his birthplace as Yoxall. Did Herbert and parent move to London, she subsequently dies, he gets taken in, birthplace misreported or unknown? But birthplaces of other of the orphans at the school are listed as unknown on the 1881 census – why would Herbert’s not be?

    I suppose I could either try and track the other potential mother/sisters or shell out the £7 for a quicker answer - Herbert's birth cert should confirm his mother's name, whether it's Lydia or not.

    Grateful for all your thoughts,

    Kate

  • #2
    You might get lucky and find some indication of the father as well as the mother. I know its rare but I have a birth certificate on which the father's name has been entered and the later crossed out. This has been done officially, with the proper little reference number BUT - the thing is, you can still read the name !!!

    At least if you get the cert you will know who the mother is. I suppose that may not solve the problem of whether the father is Mr Gee or Mr Stockton!

    Anne

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    • #3
      According to StaffsBMD Staffordshire Births Marriages & Deaths
      The Herbert WHITE b Lichfield 1867 was born in Yoxall Sub-District.

      Staffs BMD hasn't started including MMN yet, I'm afraid.

      Christine

      PS - Welcome! :D
      Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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      • #4
        I've just had a look on StaffsBMD for WHITEs b in Yoxall 1837-1880...

        Sarah 1839
        Henry 1840
        Alice 1841
        Lucy 1842
        Lydia 1851
        Sarah 1853
        Herbert 1867
        Louisa 1869
        Frederick William 1871
        Edith 1872
        William 1874
        John 1875

        Christine
        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

        Comment


        • #5
          Might be worth checking the children's baptism entries in the parish registers - the putative father is sometimes named.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks All, I think it's probably going to be the most effective use of my time to get Herbert's cert as it will give a number of possibilities:

            1. Herbert's mother is in fact Lydia - doesn't help with father, but is poss more likely to be Mr Gee, if Lydia is pressing for support for a presumably more recent child?
            2. His mother is not Lydia, but a sister - gives me mother's name and father is almost certainly then Joseph Stockton given the dates in the article.
            3. Mother is neither Lydia nor a sister - start again

            I'm a little wary of limiting my birth searches for the other child to just Yoxall sub district as I've literally just discovered that some of Lydia's siblings were born in Abbott's Bromley (Walsall way I think). Have checked IGI and there don't seem to be any decent possibilities, and def not for Herbert.

            Hmm, will sleep on it! Thanks again all

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            • #7
              Redacted

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              • #8
                Good luck! Just wanted to say it's suprising what you can find out. My grandfather was brought up most of his life by his stepfather - my great-grandmother & the stepdad moved from Bangor in North Wales to South Wales when they got together. I was always told they had 'run away' together & assumed this was because of family disapproval of her bastard child.
                However I have just managed to get my grandfather's birth cert & both his parents are named on it. Quick search of free bmd reveals they were married & the 'running away' was probably because he was still alive & she ran off with another man.
                Hayley

                Researching SCARLETT, HOLLAND, STICKLAND/STRICKLAND, QUICK - in Portsmuth area
                DAVIES, LLEWELLYN, WALSH in Wales

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kate P View Post
                  Thanks All, ...

                  I'm a little wary of limiting my birth searches for the other child to just Yoxall sub district as I've literally just discovered that some of Lydia's siblings were born in Abbott's Bromley (Walsall way I think). Have checked IGI and there don't seem to be any decent possibilities, and def not for Herbert.

                  Hmm, will sleep on it! Thanks again all
                  Abbot's Bromley is North (and slightly East) of Rugeley, and about level with Stafford, according to Google Maps.

                  Uttoxeter District (at that time), according to Genuki.

                  Christine
                  Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks Christine, that does help - it's still in the general area then. I'm going to order the cert I think, and I'll let you all know what it says when it arrives. I've pretty much exhausted my direct lines backwards, so it's now time to start filling in the sideways bits, finding siblings's marriages and descendants etc. This seems as good a place as any to start, and it'll satisfy my curiosity :D

                    Kate x

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                    • #11
                      Well it's arrived! The certificate for Herbert White shows that his mother is one Lucy White of Yoxall, no father listed. And there is indeed a Lucy White as a sister in Lydia's family group on the 1851 census. By '61 she is out in service in nearby Stoke on Trent, and in '71 is still in service in Leamington, Warwickshire. No trace on the '81 as yet but in '91 she crops up in London (!) in Marylebone. The age is out by a year or so, but the birthplace is Staffordshire and also present in the household is a Sarah White, listed as a boarder, but who also has a birthplace of Staffordshire, and given her age, I believe Sarah to be another of the White sisters too. Lucy is listed as a widowed nurse on the '91 but I'm not convinced it's genuine given these other factors, perhaps an attempt to gain some measure of respectability?

                      So I'm reasonably certain that Joseph Stockton, my great-great-great grandfather is Herbert's father, and that this Lucy on the later censuses is his mother. It doesn't help me with Joseph's other potential child, or Lydia's other child by Mr Gee - they'll have to be parked until I can plan a visit to the Lichfield register office I think. Or do you think if I contact the office direct with as much information as I have they would do a search for me? I've always used the GRO site as I've had ref numbers, I've never gone direct to a local office before so don't really know the etiquette,

                      Kate x

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                      • #12
                        Lichfield Record Office will certainly do a baptism search for you, but they make an hourly charge for it. You can e-mail them for an estimate. Alternatively I can give you the name of a researcher who's been to Lichfield for me several times, and has quite reasonable charges. I'm hoping to go to Lichfield myself when I'm in England in September, but I'm not sure how much time I'll have. I would have time to check for something very specific (e.g. look up Herbert's baptism) but not to do a long trawl of the registers.

                        You could also try the register office - not sure about them.

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