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Serious help required- time for the brains...!!!

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  • Serious help required- time for the brains...!!!

    I have been trying all week to find a William Jack in the 1851/1861 census for Scotland. Sounds simple enough but its so confusing.........

    I'll give you all the info I have. William Jack married a Margaret Dickie on 7/7/1849, banns being read in Dundonald and Dreghorn. One of their sons, Robert Jack married in 1877 to a Marion Kirk and both William Jack and Margaret Dickie are both listed as deceased at this time, note Williams occupation is Colliery Clerk.

    Right, after multiple searches using both ancestry and scotlands people, I established that on scotlands people there were four William Jack's aged between 40 and 50 in the 1851 census, easy enough i hear you say.

    1) William Jack aged 43 born in Kilwinning spouse Elizabeth
    2) William Jack aged 40 born Stevenston spouse Margaret, born Hartford?
    3) William Jack aged 50 born Ardrossan spouse Margaret born Drehorn
    4) William Jack aged 46 born New Monkland spouse none listed


    I also have the 1861 census for Margaret Jack, living in Kilmaurs with her mother her sisters and her children which lists her as enginesmiths widow. This is definately the correct family as she is with her sons and her Dickie in-laws.


    On looking at the 4 possibles above it is easy to make a case for all and also eliminate all 4.

    1) Spouse name incorrect and Kilwinning incorrect
    2) Stevenston and Hartford? incorrect but occupation Blacksmith looks promising
    3) On paper looks the best fit, birth places for William and Margaret fit, address listed as Little Shewalton, daughter Janet aged 9months also listed, but if you look for this family again, they all appear in 1861 census together with additional family members, which totally contradicts the info above (I also have the 1861 census for Margaret Jack, living in Kilmaurs with her mother her sisters and her children which lists her as enginesmiths widow.)
    4) No spouse listed but occupation as Coal and Iron master fits with his occupation listed as being colliery clerk on Robert jacks marriage cert. census and birthplace however is in new Monkland.

    Help.......!!!!!...........which one is it
    Last edited by Paulc; 18-07-09, 11:46.
    My Family History Blog Site:

    https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

  • #2
    forgot to add to number 2) They have a son listed as aged 8 which does not fit a marriage of 1849
    My Family History Blog Site:

    https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

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    • #3
      The more I look at it none of them fit now......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      My Family History Blog Site:

      https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

      Comment


      • #4
        its so frustrating i have been at this all week and for hours this morning and am getting nowhere I am wondering if i am missing something blindingly obvious........why did I start this??
        My Family History Blog Site:

        https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

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        • #5
          Paulc

          The only thing I can suggest is that you follow all the candidates forward through all census and see if that gets you anywhere!

          OC

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          • #6
            i have tired and got nowhere....!!!!!!.......there is no clear winner they all have part of the picture but can also all be written off for various reasons, just wondered if i have missed something obvious.......in all the lines ive done before ive never had one this unclear or so confusing
            My Family History Blog Site:

            https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

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            • #7
              anybody got a magic wand for me..........lol.........spent a few more hours at it, think im missing the point here somewhere.........need a break and a fresh approach me thinks.........some wine or beer might help
              My Family History Blog Site:

              https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

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              • #8
                I have several confusing lines in my tree - I'm plagued with parallel families, lol.

                Sometimes you just cannot sort it out and have to sit and wait for a direct member of the "other" family to come forward with proof that eliminates them as being yours.

                Have you tried looking on Ancestry trees to see if that helps to eliminate any of them?

                OC

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                • #9
                  i have tried to contact some people on ancestry but no replies as yet, have joined the east ayrshire family history society and have made contact with 4 people searching the Jack family, but no replies to date, will have to give it some more time and be patient i guess then it will leap right out at me when i least expect it, just been afrustrating afternoon and very little progress made...........the wine and beer are definately more appealing now...........thanks for your help
                  My Family History Blog Site:

                  https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

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                  • #10
                    are you getting any clues from the witnesses to marriages or informants to deaths from scotlands people?
                    Angelina

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                    • #11
                      some witnesses have been helpful, but ive just re-checked but nothing really helps with what i am looking for......but a good shout and made me recheck what i had
                      My Family History Blog Site:

                      https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

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                      • #12
                        think you are a tad stuffed for the moment then, just
                        1 pray someone contacts you with good info
                        2 if my elusive john haywood turns up as a rellie; emigrate!!!!
                        Angelina

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                        • #13
                          thanks angelina, im hoping that my friend/tree requests may yield some results.........heres hoping.......xx
                          My Family History Blog Site:

                          https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

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                          • #14
                            Paul; been playing on google and found www.ayrshireroots.com or co.uk and found william jack marrying margaret dickie on 7 july 1849 and also 11 june 1849 so looks like OC is right again and you have parallel families.!!!!
                            i think you need a nice lie down now......
                            Angelina

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                            • #15
                              Don't want to worry you even further but Margaret Dickie seems to be a favourite Scottish name! Not quite as bad as Margaret Smith but........ I have at least one and probably two Margaret Dickie in my Scottish families!! And I have come up against a few others of the same name!:D

                              Janet

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                              • #16
                                i thought that this was both stes of banns being read in each parish, although im not 100% sure. i thought the 11/6/1849 was the banns for dundonald and the 7/7/1849 was the banns for dreghorn and thought it was the same marriage........but as i say it was just my assumption????.........thanks xxxx
                                My Family History Blog Site:

                                https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

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                                • #17
                                  oh dont tell me that janet........!!!!!!!!..........i thought dickie was an unusual name, just googled it and oh my god you could be right
                                  My Family History Blog Site:

                                  https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

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                                  • #18
                                    Paul i think you had better check out ayrshireroots yourself and ask them exactly what their database means -banns or actual marriages. i took it to mean marriages because i thought banns had to be read at same time in each parish and there is a month's diference between the dates - could be wrong tho.
                                    also had a nosey in family search and came up with same two dates.
                                    hope you get it sorted- off for my tea now.
                                    Angelina

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                                    • #19
                                      Hi Paul, I am just home from work and haven't read your posts fully but I do have relatives who appear x 2 on IGI and SP because the bride and groom are from different parishes and have different dates.
                                      I will have a better look at your posts later - off to cook dinner.
                                      herky
                                      Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

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                                      • #20
                                        ok thanks for advice i have copies of both banns for the two dates and either wrongly or rightly assumed it to be one marriage and the banns being read in the two seperate parishes, the dates being so close????...........but would love to hear from any experts who might be able to confirm this, ill try and post the links to the banns images later...............thanks to everybody for thier input
                                        My Family History Blog Site:

                                        https://chiddicksfamilytree.com

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