Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The brick wall of an illigitemate child

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The brick wall of an illigitemate child

    How often do you come across a child who is obviuosly illegitimate.?

    My gran on my mothers side was such a child and it is known in the family .
    her Mother was a servant when she had gran and no father is listed on her birth certificate .
    So this then becomes a dead end .

    However an assumption could be made it was either the house owner or his son/sons who were responsible or one of the other male servants .

    So my question is how many big houses were there in the Biddenden area that would have servants .?

    or would even small houses have servants as i cant find Esther Wildish on the 1911 census at home.

  • #2
    It doesn't necessarily mean that it could be a married man of the same class in that area.

    But I suppose it depends what type of life the servants led and how much time they had to themselves to go out and meet other people!

    You haven't said when your grandmother was born.

    Edit to say: and where is Biddenden? the only one I know of is Kent.

    There is a

    Mary E Wildish born Ashford, Kent 1888 on the 1911 census is this her mother?
    Last edited by Guest; 11-07-09, 12:25.

    Comment


    • #3
      If it doesn't specify much about the "servant" status, then she could have been a servant in quite a small household, I'm afraid. In the era of very conspicuous class, almost every middle class household would have had at least one maid.

      Christine
      Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

      Comment


      • #4
        PS - You can sometimes find clues in names (especially middle names) - or the Baptism register - or a Will.

        Christine
        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

        Comment


        • #5
          A bit of a long shot but sometimes baptism records have the reputed father's name, it was up to the vicar and his feelings about the matter. Otherwise the local parish relief records (can't think of the official title) may have something.

          Comment


          • #6
            I do feel a bit sorry for the nobility/houseowners, who always get the blame for fathering illegitimate children!

            It's never Jim the baker's boy, or Fred the postman, or even some passing soldier, it's always the Master at the Big House.

            (Far too much Catherine Cookson)

            Even quite humble working class homes had servants in Victorian times, they were two a penny and cheap as chips. Sometimes "servant" can conceal a relative, a cousin's daughter, say, who is sent to help out a family member for board and keep, and thus relieve her parents of the burden of keeping her, and probably freeing up a bit of room in the household.

            OC

            Comment


            • #7
              All of what the last posters have said is true but in most of my instances of illegitimate births no father was ever named (even in Poor Law records) but sometime down the line some of these people were using a middle name that was actually a surname which led me to their natural fathers. It was never on their baptism or cert it was an unrecorded fact that seemed to pass down the family by word of mouth and when they were of age starting using it in their names.

              Not saying it will in your case. But it would be helpful if you gave us a few more details just to confirm what era we are talking about.

              Edit to say Agrees with OC 9 times out of 10 it was probably a local boy/man of the same class and for all sorts of reasons wasn't in a position to marry them...
              Last edited by Guest; 11-07-09, 12:47.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes I agree with Christine - I have a very close direct line relative and the middle name is thought to be the father's name but as this is a common name for the area then I will never find that branch.
                It is very unfortunate as the relative was born at the beginning of the 20th century so I have no way back on a whole branch - no wills or family letters that are now of but I always live in hope that one day a letter will turn up somewhere with some information on my great grandad. It seems unlikely though.
                Modem - I also have a few certs with reputed father, great when that happend.
                If you are in Scotland you can try to view Kirk Session Records (I haven't done this myself yet) - these are minutes of the Church of Scotland meetings and often there will be entries about illegitimacy etc - or so I have heard.
                herky
                Researching - Trimmer (Farringdon), Noble & Taylor (Ross and Cromarty), Norris (Glasgow), McGilvray (Glasgow and Australia), Leck & Efford (Glasgow), Ferrett (Hampshire), Jenkins & Williams (Aberystwyth), Morton (Motherwell and Tipton), Barrowman (Glasgow), Lilley (Bromsgrove and Glasgow), Cresswell (England and Lanarkshire). Simpson, Morrow and Norris in Ireland. Thomas Price b c 1844 Scotland.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Grans birth was registered in Hartley NR Cranbrook , Kent. 17th April 1905

                  Her names are Winifred Ruth , so unless the father was female lol , the middle name is no clue .

                  The lord/owners name is family hearsay so i have no proof there in.and yes it could have been anyone . However i am told the family were quiet strick the male side in perticular.
                  The fact Esther Wldish has allways been listed as a servent and my Mum knows that she was a maid i find it even more strange that i cant find her on the 1911 census when Winifred is staying with her Gran and Grandad and other members of the Wildish family .



                  Peter

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    On Free BMD site there is a Esther Wildish getting married in 1909, Cranbrook district, to either a POOLE or a FULLER, so she could be in th 1911 census under one of those names.
                    :D Carolyn

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      From a quick look at the 1911 census index, I think it's most likely she married Albert George Fuller.
                      :D Carolyn

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Doh i can be so thick i know she married Albert Fuller .
                        Never thought to look up Fuller .

                        My mum has just filled in a bit of background info ,Esther was very ill after the birth of Winifred and she was bruoght up by her grandparents .

                        Albert Fuller who married Esther allways said that Wini was not a child of his 'correct as far as he is concerned' .

                        Esther was confined to a bath chair for quiet a while and when she was fit enough she went back to work.


                        Peter

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          In a book I read ages ago, it stated there were six degrees of illegitimate children, with varying acceptance in Society.

                          Top of the list for acceptability were the children of the Master of the Big House, who had forced his unwelcome attentions on the innocent servant. Everyone mmediately understood that the girl had been ill-used and had had no alternative and was to be pitied not censured.

                          Hmmmm...not so sure about that myself, but if I was Maudie the parlourmaid faced with telling my irate dad that I'd had a fling with a barrow boy, I think I'd probably say it was my employer! No working class father would dare tackle an employer, so her story would hold good AND the neighbours would be sympathetic too.

                          However - undoubtedly the employer DID occasionally father illegitimate children (or his sons did) but you might have a job to prove it, as such matters were generally very discreetly dealt with. A clue might be that the girl's circumstances improved slightly after the birth, or that the child received a good education, or came into some money later on.

                          I do know of one case in 1907 where the mother had the child baptised and his photo appeared in the local rag stating the child to be the son of Miss X and Mr Y. But we had already suspected this as the child had the father's surname as a middle name. As far as we know, the father never admitted paternity!

                          OC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have a gt x a few aunty who had 2 illegit children (that I know of) born 11 years apart. One has no father, one has a father named as a "gentleman's butler" as though there were any other kind!!! I've found a married chap on the census who could be him but he isn't a butler. Another demonstration of making someone appear more grand I suppose.

                            I also have heaps of illegit children whose parents later marry. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to whether the children later use their father's surname or the one they were registered with.

                            My gt grandmother Ruth has "illegitimate daughter of Susanna Barnes" on both her birth and her marriage certs. And actually mothers are at least as important as fathers so its nice that Susanna gets a mention on the marriage cert.
                            ~ with love from Little Nell~
                            Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sometimes the child's father will leave them something in a Will.

                              We have a Will where someone names his legitimate children, then also mentions ' My natural son, Thomas Davis'.
                              Afterwards, Thomas' children took the surname of their paternal grandfather, although Thomas had used DAVIS when he had married.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I have one who had an illegitimate child 1857 and no father's name on the birth certificate, but when I went to the local church where the child was baptised, the father's name was written clearly in the register! Always worth considering, especially as you do know the name of the church where the baptism took place.

                                Janet

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Re the Scottish Kirk Sessions - I have one such in my tree, from Tulliallan Parish Kirk Session Minute book, sent to me by a cousin researching this line.

                                  "Compeared Elizabeth Burns who after being exhorted to tell the truth confessed she was with child to John Ledbettor.

                                  9th May 1830. Compeared also Elizabeth Burns and John Leadbettor who being exhorted to tell the truth declared that she was with child before he knew her, admitted that he had had dealings with her but denied that he was the father of the child.

                                  Elizabeth Burns declared that the GUILT was committed in her father's house on the last Sabbath or last but one in December and at other times after that. John Ledbettor admitted that her statement in relation to time was correct and that if the birth corresponded with time he would acknowledge the child as his."

                                  Beverley



                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I put up a Scottish birth here a few months ago, with a linked entry in the Register of Corrected Entries where the Sheriff had wrung the father's name from the unfortunate maiden.
                                    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I have recently been able to identify the father of an illegitimate child, but the evidence only shows up over 50 years after the birth.
                                      Mary Ann PARDON Colman was born in Dec 1837. Nothing in the parish register, but Pardon sort of points the finger.:D
                                      Mary Ann married and had a family, but sadly, died in 1875. Her husband died a few months later and their six younger children went into the worhouse.
                                      Their daughter, Florence, had an illegitimate daughter Daisy in 1886.
                                      In 1891 census, Florence was in service, and I discovered Daisy, aged 5, living with a Christopher PARDON, his wife and step-son - Daisy was recorded as Christopher's grand-daughter By my reckoning, she was really his great-grand-daughter. (Christopher was born in the same year as Mary Ann's mother and came from the next village.)
                                      So, in my case, truth will out.

                                      Jay
                                      Janet in Yorkshire



                                      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        glad to see some people are having some luck, with their illegitimate's. i know the name of my illegitimate ancestor's father, but cant find him on the census, unless he is there, just not under the occupation the mother said!!
                                        as for the others in my tree, father's name is pretty much all i know. i cant find anything else.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X