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    I have recently come across the death certificate of my Grand Father and would like some more information about him. He died and was buried in the Southend on Sea area in 1952,Is there anybody in that area that is able to find out about him if I supply the information I have about him?

    Nigel

  • #2
    You wouldn't be looking at me would you?:D:D

    I'd be happy to help if I can.
    Sue

    Comment


    • #3
      Sue

      Looks like you have drawn the short straw !

      If you can help me I would be gratful, His name is Herbert Edward Martin, He lived at 140 Electric Ave,Westcliff-on-sea,and died 5 Sep 1952.

      He was born in Somerset Jul 1895, the marraige to my grandmother only lasted a few years and they were quite stormy years. As kids we were told he had ran off to London and was never spoke about.

      I don't know if he remarried or had a partner,and I am a little hesitant to trace this just in case I uncover relative I never knew about.

      If you need anymore info,let me know.

      Nigel

      Comment


      • #4
        Nigel,
        Are you sure of the middle name Edward? The details you give seem to match those of Herbert Edwin Martin.

        Born Sep qtr 1895 Frome, Somerset V5c page 427, one of five children of Bertie Fred & Keziah Grace Martin.
        Married Eva Pobjoy Jun qtr 1919 Frome V5c page 1040
        Son Raymond Harold Pobjoy Martin Sep qtr 1920 Frome V5c page 699
        Herbert died age 57 Sep qtr 1952 Southend V4a page 561.

        In 1911 he was an Errand Boy in a Boot Shop.

        There are three photos of Herbert on Ancestry, attached to the Jocelyn public family tree - a picture of Herbert, a marriage group, and Herbert and Eva with Raymond. Also possibly more information on the private Martin/Pobjoy tree.

        What is Herbert's occupation on his marriage certificate and his son's birth certificate? If he was in the Professions, Business or Trade then one of the best chances of finding him after 1920 may be in contemporary directories.

        Also who registered Herbert's death in 1952? Are there any clues there?

        Hugh Smith

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Nigel

          Have you located where Herbert is buried? Southend Cemetery are really helpful A to Z of Council Services :: Southend-on-Sea
          Make sure that you tell them the address as there is/was another cemetery in Westcliff which they also hold the records for. If you find a grave record I'll go along and have a look to see if it gives any clues.
          Sue

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by hughar View Post
            Nigel,
            Are you sure of the middle name Edward? The details you give seem to match those of Herbert Edwin Martin.

            Born Sep qtr 1895 Frome, Somerset V5c page 427, one of five children of Bertie Fred & Keziah Grace Martin.
            Married Eva Pobjoy Jun qtr 1919 Frome V5c page 1040
            Son Raymond Harold Pobjoy Martin Sep qtr 1920 Frome V5c page 699
            Herbert died age 57 Sep qtr 1952 Southend V4a page 561.

            In 1911 he was an Errand Boy in a Boot Shop.

            There are three photos of Herbert on Ancestry, attached to the Jocelyn public family tree - a picture of Herbert, a marriage group, and Herbert and Eva with Raymond. Also possibly more information on the private Martin/Pobjoy tree.

            What is Herbert's occupation on his marriage certificate and his son's birth certificate? If he was in the Professions, Business or Trade then one of the best chances of finding him after 1920 may be in contemporary directories.

            Also who registered Herbert's death in 1952? Are there any clues there?

            Hugh Smith
            Hugh

            Sorry,his second name was Edwin,although it has been entered on the death certificate as Edward.

            The information you have found,I already know,the Martin/Pobjoy tree on ancestry is mine. I have no information on him after the mid 1920's,when he left Frome.
            His death was registered by a D S Hilton.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hugh

              Sorry,his second name was Edwin,although it has been entered on the death certificate as Edward.

              The information you have found,I already know,the Martin/Pobjoy tree on ancestry is mine. I have no information on him after the mid 1920's,when he left Frome.
              His death was registered by a D S Hilton.

              Comment


              • #8
                Sue

                The informant on the death certificate is " D S Hilton 18 Suffolk Ave, Leigh-on -Sea,causing the body to be buried"
                I will look at the link you sent me and let you know.

                Nigel

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Leicester Fox View Post
                  Hugh

                  Sorry,his second name was Edwin,although it has been entered on the death certificate as Edward.

                  The information you have found,I already know,the Martin/Pobjoy tree on ancestry is mine. I have no information on him after the mid 1920's,when he left Frome.
                  His death was registered by a D S Hilton.
                  Nigel,
                  I thought that might be the case, but just wanted to be sure.

                  We only know that he left Frome in the 1920s and edded up in Southend in 1952. He could have been almost anywhere in the country, or abroad, in the intervening 30 years.

                  So, how about his occupation, from his marriage certificate or his son's birth certificate?

                  Was there anything on the death certificate to indicate D.S.Hilton's relationship to the deceased? Also have you looked to see if he left a will?

                  Hugh

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by hughar View Post
                    Was there anything on the death certificate to indicate D.S.Hilton's relationship to the deceased? Also have you looked to see if he left a will?
                    "Causing the body to be buried" usually means it was the hospital or undertaker and that a relative hadn't been found.
                    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hugh/Uncle John/Sue

                      On the death certificate it does state that he died in Southend-on-Sea,General Hospital. Could this D.S.Hilton be the undertaker? There is no indication as to a relationship on the cert.

                      I have been in contact with the council and have a number to ring regarding Cemeteries.

                      As the cert was found amonst my Grandmothers proccesions,am I right in thinking that he never re-married and she was still the next of kin although they lived apart for all these years?

                      As for a will, I would know where to start for that.

                      Nigel

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Nigel

                        It seems likely that your Grandmother was still next of kin but I'm not sure. Were they ever divorced?
                        The Cemetery records might give a bit more information (not promising) about who arranged the funeral.
                        The Wiki gives an idea on how to find a Will Wills and Probate - Family Tree Forum You'll need to look on the National Probate Calendar (there's a link within the link which I think gives addressses!) but sometimes members here will offer lookups!
                        I'll try and get to the Library over the weekend and see if they have a Directory for that period which might give an idea of who D S Hilton might have been.
                        Sue

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Leicester Fox View Post
                          On the death certificate it does state that he died in Southend-on-Sea,General Hospital. Could this D.S.Hilton be the undertaker? There is no indication as to a relationship on the cert.
                          More likely to be the hospital social worker (used to be called the almoner).
                          Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I popped into the library before going to Sainsburys this morning!

                            The Kellys Directories for 1951 and 52 were missing :( but in 1950 D S Hilton was not in the town (unless in lodgings and therefore not listed) The person listed as living at 140 Electric Ave was not Herbert (I'll pm you the name as there's a possibility that he's still alive) he was also listed at that address in 1953 which suggests to me that Hercbert was renting a room. I found D S Hilton in Suffolk Ave in the 1953 Directory (again full name in pm). He was not the Town Registrar nor was he listed as anything significant at the Hospital. I also checked the names of religious ministers etc just in case. If he was an employee of a Funeral Director or the Hospital he gave his own address rather than a business one. None of this particularly helpful I know....

                            I did think I'd found Herbert and checked back through the years to 1925 then looked at 1953 and this Herbert Martin was still alive.:o

                            The weekly local paper for 1952 is on film at the library I'll go back another day and have look for Herbert in there.
                            Sue

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sue from Southend View Post

                              I did think I'd found Herbert and checked back through the years to 1925 then looked at 1953 and this Herbert Martin was still alive.
                              Don't dismiss this one without checking further and later. At that time the listings in Kelly's Directories were prepared by marking up the previous year's electoral roll to select the head of the household, rather than by using questionnaires or collecting information door to door. I know that, as it was the job I did for a printer in Kent during my school holidays in 1950. So a Directory dated 1953 could easily include someone who died in September of the previous year.

                              I'd still like to know what his occupation was, from his marriage certificate or his son's birth certificate, so we could look for him that way.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Oh that's interesting Hugh, well worth remembering I'll have a look at 1954/5 next visit -I'm intrigued now! However as I write this I've remembered that the "possible" Herbert Martin lived at the same address (not Electric Ave) for many years and was still there in 1953 so I am still inclined to think that he is a different Herbert! But I will double check;)
                                Sue

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Hi Sue
                                  I totally agree with what Hughar says about people being listed the following year or a couple of years after they had moved/died but I don't think it is relevant in this case. Regarding Electoral registers, from memory I think that those from 1949-1965 were kept in the Civic Centre & later ones at the library. I am guessing that earlier registers (pre 1949) are at the Essex Record office. At one time you could go into the Civic centre & look at the ER's but I think things may have changed because of tighter security etc.
                                  Moggie

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Hello All

                                    I have found the plot and grave number which I have passed to Sue,also in that plot is a Rose Alice Martin,This is a name I have not come across before. I am going to get the Cemeteries Dept to do a full search on this plot.

                                    Herbert occupation on his death cert is stated as a Electrical Engineers Clerk, of 140 Electric Ave,Westcliff-on -Sea. Is this possible that he lived/lodged in a company house?

                                    D.S. Hilton was 18 Suffolk Road,Leigh-on-Sea.

                                    I have fished out his marriage cert and that is dated 7 June 1919 and his occupation is a Miner, and on my fathers marriage cert, dated 6 June 1942 he is down as a Traveller, which leads me to think he could not be located.

                                    Thanks once again for all the imput and keep the suggestions and advise coming,I have only been tracing Family History for about 18 months and any help is greatly recieved.

                                    I shall be off line for the next two weeks,The Greek sunshine is beckoning.

                                    Nigel

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Hi Nigel
                                      Did the cemetery give any indication of when Rose Alice Martin died?
                                      If she died a few years before Herbert her death cert might give another address to search for.
                                      Moggie

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Nigel,
                                        This may seem to be a naive question, but bearing in mind that you now know that the grave includes a female with the same surname, and who is unknown to you, how sure are you that the Herbert Edward Martin buried in 1952 is the same person as the Herbert Edwin Martin born in 1895?

                                        Comment

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