Mystery of the 2 James's.....B'ham

[skylark]

I REALLY need help with sorting out if the James Willis on the 1901 is the same one on the 1911...PLEASE....

1901 7/19 Warwick St Aston B'ham RG13/2857/page 26

James Willis, 41, Gen Lab, b Worcs
Kate Willis, wife, 30, b B'ham ( No marriage found for this couple )
Ann Willis, 13,
William Willis, 4
Philip Willis, 1

--------------------------

1911 21 Lombard St Aston B'ham

James Willis, 67, b Worcs, Labourer in Brass Shop b Worcs
Jane Willis, 58, b stafford, Charwoman ( Married 9 years, but no marriage found for this couple )
Philip Willis, 11, b B'ham ( this IS the same Philip as on the 1901)
Samuel Hale, 21, Boarder, b Stafford, single ( Samuel filled out the census)

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NOTE: Samuel was my grandfather & his parentage is a BIG mystery, I am wondering if JANE was his mother ?? I was told that my granddad had a "brother" called Philip so am really looking for the connection between them. But I need to unravel the mystery of the two James Willis's & the big age difference between 1901/1911 census's. I have found the following on the 1901 census which I feel might be my granddad...

1901 12 Sandy Lane, Aston B'ham RG13/2856/156/ page 17

George Hinton, 57, b Glos, Potman Barman
Jane Hinton, 47, Charwoman, b West Bromwich ( no marriage found)
Samuel Hale Hinton, 11, b West Bromwich. ( no birth found for anyone with these names)

So there are my problems... 2 James Willis's...are the 2 Janes one & the same?.... ANY HELP WILL BE MUCH APPRECIATED...

Margaret.

[Christine in Herts]

It might be worth trying to find out who the second bride is for the 1886q3 Aston 6d-340 marriage which has two grooms and one bride transcribed so far on FreeBMD:
PITTAWAY Thomas
WILLIS James William
KILLER Elizabeth

That has the added interest that the groom's second name is William - like the first name of the 4-year-old in 1901, plus the date puts it in time to make the eldest child legitimate.

Christine

[skylark]

Ah....found marriage on the IGI & James William Willis married Elizabeth Killer 05/09/1886 St Andrews church...but thank you anyway.
Margaret.

[Lindsay]

Have you got a marriage cert for your grandfather to get his father's name? Any useful witnesses?

[skylark]

Hello Lindsey,
I do indeed have the 1912 marriage cert for my granddad ( same address as on the 1911 census) Sadly it would appear he gave a false & made up name for his father, so that was a dead end.

Margaret.

[Lindsay]

They don't make it easy for us, do they?

I expect you've tried tracing James in earlier censuses to see if you can get a better fix on his age and perhaps to narrow down his place of birth?

I had a quick look but couldn't spot him...also looked for Samuel Hale in 1891 and found one in some sort of institution but he was with (presumably) his mother Jemima not Jane.

It certainly sounds reasonable that Jane and Samuel are connected but proving it's going to be difficult without proper records. :(

[susan h]

I too found the Samuel and Jemima, 1891 census record - it may be worth pursuing.

[Christine in Herts]

Ah....found marriage on the IGI & James William Willis married Elizabeth Killer 05/09/1886 St Andrews church...but thank you anyway.
Margaret.

I used that info to find the other bride - since it would clearly be from teh same church, it would be from the same IGI batch (barring some unkind coincidence of cut-off points). She'd been given "540" instead of "340" as the page number.

I've put in a correction to FreeBMD.

Christine

[skylark]

Thanks for your input folks... I have not had any luck with finding James Willis on any earlier census's...also where are Kate, Ann & William on the 1911 ? again I have looked & failed to find them, & why would Philip NOT be with them? There are more questions than answers with this family...

Margaret.

[Christine in Herts]

Have you tried the usual less-is-more hunting techniques on the censuses? i.e. Seeing how little info you can put in without getting swamped with hits. Dropping a main piece of info can sometimes come up with the goods.

There are also other considerations... James sometimes looks like Samuel in old script, for instance. Willis might get guessed in transcription as Williams.

Christine