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1911 Census New Mystery

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  • 1911 Census New Mystery

    Hi All

    Finally managed to break down part of a brick wall now that 1911 census is published, but it has only left me with new questions.
    The whole story is quite long, but I am just putting the basic query here in the hope that someone will be able to help.

    I am trying to track down the birth cert of my grandfather Robert, who was born in 1899/1900 in Bangor, North Wales. His mother was called Jane.

    Robert spent most of his life in Neath, South Wales, representing himself on various documents as the son of Thomas Davies, who was actually his stepfather.
    Thanks to the 1911 census I have been able to find out the names of Robert's half-siblings, so I am hoping a copy of one of their birth certs will confirm for me what Jane's maiden name - and therefore Robert's likely birth name - was.
    There has, however, been a suggestion from family members that Jane was already a Davies before her marriage, so now that I know where he was born I have been looking for Thomas Davies' born in Bangor at the relevant time.

    I have found a Robert J Davies born 4q 1900 in Bangor, when you view the record it is out of alphabetical order & is handwritten at the bottom of the page. It gives a volume of 11b but no page number - I think it says something like 'see j31'?
    My question is, does this format suggest there is something 'odd' about the birth registration? My first thought is that he may have been adopted; possibly someone in Jane's family had a child out of wedlock & upon her leaving home to get married, she took the child. Though I believe adoption was not a formal thing at this time.

    Thanks for any help you can give me,
    Hayley

    Researching SCARLETT, HOLLAND, STICKLAND/STRICKLAND, QUICK - in Portsmuth area
    DAVIES, LLEWELLYN, WALSH in Wales

  • #2
    At the very least, it must mean that the name was added after the printing of the page - so "late".

    Christine
    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks, Christine.
      I am wondering if Jane waited until after she married Thomas and registered her son then.
      All very confusing, although I am almost certain Robert was born 'out of wedlock' I am not sure whether Thomas may have been his real father, or whether he may have been represented as such on Robert's birth cert.
      With a surname like Davies, I'm not having much luck identifying the birth certs of the half-siblings, either, even if I take their ages on 1911 census as gospel truth.
      Hayley

      Researching SCARLETT, HOLLAND, STICKLAND/STRICKLAND, QUICK - in Portsmuth area
      DAVIES, LLEWELLYN, WALSH in Wales

      Comment


      • #4
        "See j31" means "see January quarter 1931", which is when the birth will have been re-registered.

        Comment


        • #5
          He was originally registered as Robert John Shears in the 4th quarter of 1900, then re-registered as Robert J Davies, mother's maiden name Shears, in Bangor in the 1st quarter of 1931.

          Comment


          • #6
            Oh, thanks Mary, now it starts to make sense!
            I think I might send for a copy of that certificate, I wonder if Jane re-registered him after her marriage & gave her new husband's name as the father?
            I suppose it's even possible Thomas was the father, though I don't think the story of him being the stepson would have survived through the family if this were the case, it would have been just that he was the son. Then I would have been left wondering why he was born before the marriage!
            Still, at least the 1911 census means I can at last make some progress on that branch of the family.
            Hayley

            Researching SCARLETT, HOLLAND, STICKLAND/STRICKLAND, QUICK - in Portsmuth area
            DAVIES, LLEWELLYN, WALSH in Wales

            Comment


            • #7
              I do wonder though, if Thomas Davies was the biological father, why they waited so long to re-register his birth - they could have done it years before.

              I suspect this is a "mother's own" adoption and that Thomas Davies is not actually his biological father.

              EDIT - oh stupid me, too much sun today! This is not an adoption as they do not appear in the public GRO indexes, it is a re-registration, almost certainly to legitimise his birth...but only the cert will tell you that!

              OC
              Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 14-06-09, 23:16.

              Comment


              • #8
                I have just sent for Robert John Shears' birth cert, so here's hoping I get only answers & no new questions when it arrives. I will keep you updated, thanks for your help.
                Hayley

                Researching SCARLETT, HOLLAND, STICKLAND/STRICKLAND, QUICK - in Portsmuth area
                DAVIES, LLEWELLYN, WALSH in Wales

                Comment


                • #9
                  Aaaaggghhhh!

                  Back to the drawing board I'm afraid. I sent for the birth cert of Robert John Shears and that gave the mother's name as Elizabeth Mary Shears, no father. I was slightly thrown by this as I had thought his mother was called Jane.
                  I decided the only avenue available to me was to send for the re-registered cert of Robert John Davies, which has just arrived. Sadly while these two cert do 'match up' with each other, I do not think they refer to my relatve. On the second cert the mother is Elizabeth Mary Davies formerly Shears, father David Davies, their address given as in Bargoed still.

                  Anyone got any ideas where I could go next? Was banking so much on this one being the right one, I'm not really thinking too clearly now.

                  Thanks all
                  Hayley

                  Researching SCARLETT, HOLLAND, STICKLAND/STRICKLAND, QUICK - in Portsmuth area
                  DAVIES, LLEWELLYN, WALSH in Wales

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ah, that's a shame. It leaves you in a bit of a quandary, because the name's such a common one. I'll have another read through your other threads this evening when I finish work, and see if I can think of anything else.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The 1901 has

                      - Ancestry.co.uk

                      Thomas Shears 48 Chackmore Bucks
                      Elizabeth M Shears daughter single 23 Llandegai Caernarvonshire
                      William T son 21
                      Clara E daughter 12
                      Arthur W Grandson 2
                      Robert J grandson 5 months

                      so that looks as though it could be your Robert and that Elizabeth M is his mother

                      There is this marriage Q/E Sep 1903 Bangor (11b 692)

                      Davies David
                      Hughes Henry
                      Owen Kate
                      Shears Elizabeth Mary which fits with the reregistration details
                      Jackie

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                      • #12
                        Well done Night Owl - I think you've cracked it!
                        Margaret

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                        • #13
                          Arthur W is probably Arthur William Shears b Q/E March 1899 Bangor 11b 435 who is also probably Arthur W Davies (Arthur W Bangor 11b see J/31)
                          Jackie

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
                            Well done Night Owl - I think you've cracked it!
                            Margaret
                            Thanks Margaret I think its a start

                            I've tried tracking the grandfather back to see if there was another daughter called Jane but there doesn't seem to be.

                            Because Davies is such a common name I can't tell who else is in Robert and Arthur's household in 1911. Hayley have you looked at the 1911 entry? If so it might help us to work out what direction to go next

                            Did Elizabeth morph into Jane and remarry Thomas Davies or is Thomas or Jane Davies related in some way to David Davies?
                            Jackie

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes, in 1911 - assuming I have the right Robert Davies! - he is living in Neath, South Wales, with mother Jane (by then she is Davies but maiden name not known), Thomas Davies - the man I have always been told was his stepfather - and 2 younger siblings. Sister Annie aged 9, brother Thomas aged 5.
                              Also in the same household were 2 teenage boys given as brothers of the head of house. Their surname was Davies, but one of the family rumours is that Jane was already a Davies before she married Thomas, so they could be her brothers I suppose.

                              My grandfather Robert was brought up almost all his life in Neath, under the stepfather's name. The 1911 census says he was born in Bangor. His mother's birthplace was Merioneth.

                              It's so frustrating to run into a brick wall so early in the paternal tree ... on the maternal side I have already traced the family back to just pre-registration, but my mum isn't that interested & my dad is fascinated. Murphy's Law.

                              Thanks for your continued help all,
                              Hayley

                              Researching SCARLETT, HOLLAND, STICKLAND/STRICKLAND, QUICK - in Portsmuth area
                              DAVIES, LLEWELLYN, WALSH in Wales

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Is Arthur also in the household? Does your Dad remember an Uncle Arthur?

                                I think there are a few things you could do to take this forward

                                1. Try to trace David Davies back on the censuses. Presumably his occupation is on the reregistered birth cert. It may prove difficult without knowing his age but I would guess he is about the same age as Elizabeth Mary. It may be worth getting the 1903 marriage cert because that would give a lot more information

                                2. Try to trace Thomas back. You've got his age, birthplace and occupation from 1911 and if the 2 boys shown as brothers are really his brothers that should help

                                3. Try to find Thomas and Jane's marriage - 1911 should say how long they have been married which should narrow it down

                                4. Try to track Jane back - you know she was born in Merioneth and how old she was in 1911 and if you find some possible marriages you could cross check with the surnames

                                I have a hunch that David Davies may have been Thomas Davies's or Jane's brother although that could be way off the mark. The family rumour that Jane was a Davies before she married Thomas may be true after all. I'm hoping that at some point you'll find the link between them all if they are the right family.

                                I assume you have Ancestry, if not the link I put up earlier would have been no use ;) I don't know whether you want to try to find out more by yourself but if not I'm happy to help further (there are probably other people on here who would be willing to help as well). If so it would probably help to have all the details from the 1911
                                Jackie

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Thanks Jackie,

                                  I had seen that Robert Shears with his mum & grandfather in 1901 and noted a possible brother (who, by the way, did not get 'adopted' with my Robert).
                                  Only problem is, although I am convinced that this Robert Shears later became Robert Davies, his brother also became Arthur Davies and his parents were married. I am not convinced that this Robert & my grandfather Robert are the same person.

                                  What I have decided to do is put some effort into locating the birth certs of his siblings Annie & Thomas. Althought there are several in the area of right age I can possibly ask LRO to do some reference checking for a match with parents Thomas & Jane. Then, I will have proof of what Jane's maiden name was and maybe get somewhere.

                                  Thanks for your help!
                                  Hayley

                                  Researching SCARLETT, HOLLAND, STICKLAND/STRICKLAND, QUICK - in Portsmuth area
                                  DAVIES, LLEWELLYN, WALSH in Wales

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Just a quick update for those of you who helped me with this tangle.

                                    I am cautiously optimistic that I may have found the right Robert Davies' birth cert. Managed to get a birth cert for a man I am 90% certain (as sure as I'm going to be, in other words) was his half-brother Thomas and this cert confirms that Robert's mum Jane was formerly Davies.
                                    This obviously suggested that Robert would have been registered as Davies also even though born out of wedlock. From census', marriage cert etc I had a very good idea he was born 1899/1900 in Bangor and as luck would have it, if you don't allow too much time for error on the birth year, there were only 3 possibles.

                                    I asked the GRO to do some ref checking for a Robert Davies son of Jane Davies & the cert arrived today. Absolutley typical of my complicated paternal family, his father is named on the birth cert as Hugh Davies, and his mum is Jane Catherine Davies ... formerly Davies (which was why there was no previous married name on his half-bro's birth cert).
                                    I have just done some 'forward' checking & though there is a Robert Davies living in Bangor of right age, neither parent's name is the same & I think he must be one of the other 3 possibles.

                                    So, the good news is, his parents were married ... bad news is, I can't find a record of his father dying or a record of his mum marrying his stepfather, so it seems it's actually his half-siblings who were born out of wedlock!
                                    Hayley

                                    Researching SCARLETT, HOLLAND, STICKLAND/STRICKLAND, QUICK - in Portsmuth area
                                    DAVIES, LLEWELLYN, WALSH in Wales

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