Driving me up the wall! Please help!

[zoejg]

This is a long one, I'm afraid:

On 26/11/1870, William RIDLEY married Sarah Anne Green in Knaresdale, Northumberland. His father was named as Thomas Armstrong.

However, Thomas appears on the census records as follows:

1841: Class HO107/Piece 841/Book 35
Thomas RIDLEY / 1816 / Northumberland
Other members of household: RIDLEYS: William, aged 69; James, aged 60; John, aged 40; Robert, aged 10; Jane, aged 5 ARMSTRONGS: Robert, aged 20; Jane, aged 19

1851: Cannot find likely match under RIDLEY or ARMSTRONG

1861: Class RG9/Piece 3867/Folio 66/Page 22
Thomas RIDLEY / 1815 / Northumberland
Wife Elizabeth, Children William, Jane, James, and Mary, brother John - all with last name RIDLEY

1871: Class RG10/Piece 5156/Folio 41/Page 7
Thomas RIDLEY / 1815 / Knaresdale (brother of head)
Brother John RIDLEY, aged 74; wife Elizabeth, children William, Jane Ann, James, Mary, and Margaret - again, all with last name RIDLEY

I believe he died in 1876 and that his death was registered in the name of RIDLEY

In an attempt to clear this up, I thought I'd take a look at the (online) parish records:

CHRISTENINGS:

Thomas Armstrong 17/4/1814 of John Armstrong and Mary, Knaresdale
Thomas RIDLEY 24/4/1814 of William Ridley and Jane, Knaresdale

So I looked at the marriages, still trying to find the elusive Ridley/Armstrong connection:

William RIDLEY married Isabella ARMSTRONG on 27/2/1817 in Knaresdale

Which doesn't match with either of the christenings above - both were apparently to married couples, and neither of the wives were called Isabella or anything similar.

Can anyone help me find 'my' RIDLEY/ARMSTRONG connection or suggest a reason why Thomas used both names? I'm wondering whether I've been looking at this for so long that I'm missing something obvious.

Many thanks,
Zoe

[Jessbowbag]

1861 for ref

Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 3867; Folio: 66; Page: 22; GSU roll: 543198.

Thomas Ridley 46 Northumberland
Elizabeth Ridley 33 born Cumberland
William Ridley 7 Knaresdale
Jane Ridley 5 Knaresdale
James Ridley 2 Knaresdale
Mary Ridley 1 Knaresdale
John Ridley 64 Brother


John Murray 24 Servant
William Steets 21 Servant
Issabella Norman 18 Servant

[HeatherD]

How old was William when he married? Have you found him on the 1871 census and traced him back?

[Richard]

"William RIDLEY married Isabella ARMSTRONG on 27/2/1817 in Knaresdale"

The obvious answer would be Thomas was born to Isabella Armstrong in 1814 before her marriage, then took on his stepfathers name. However I'd still expect there to be a baptism for him, so maybe not.

[Richard]

Looking at the 1841 Census, James Ridley, aged 60, is a mistrancription, should be Jane or Janet, as the age is given in the female box. I'd say then that Thomas is definently the son baptised "Thomas RIDLEY 24/4/1814 of William Ridley and Jane, Knaresdale"

[Richard]

Is this your Thomas? Headstone for a Thomas Ridley 1876 at Knaresdale:

G62 [ 20 Ridley ]
In memory of Thomas Ridley who died at Knarsdale-Hall, Aug 25 1876, aged 62 years. Also of John his son, who died April 10 1866; aged 11 months. Also of Elizabeth his wife, who died Nov 22 1890; aged 62 years. Also of Margaret their daughter who died April 18 1891; aged 27 years [headstone]

Also a grave there for William and Jane and their family:

G63 [ 56 Ridley ]
Erected in memory of Jane wife of William Ridley who died at Knarsdale-Hall March 8th 1856 Aged 79 years. Also of the above William Ridley who died March 21st 1859 aged 87 years. Also of Mary their daughter who died Novr 9th 1827 aged 27 years. Also of Elizabeth their daughter who died June 26th 1850 aged 47 years. Also of Jane their daughter who died April 16th 1850 aged 33 years. Also of Jane their granddaughter who died May 25th 1852 aged 17 years. Also of John their son who died Feb 10th 1872 aged 75 years. Also of Hannah wife of Thomas Ridley of Side House who died June 30th 1850 Aged 28 years. Also of Mary wife of Joseph Ridley of Slaggyford who died July 12th 1852 Aged 37 years [headstone]

There is also a grave with both Armstongs and Ridleys:

G3 [ 118 Armstrong - photo indistinct ]
In Memory of Tamar wife of Thomas Armstrong of Sanders Close who died May 18th 1846 aged 17 years. Also of Sarah wife of William Ridley son in law* of the above named who died at Town Green June 17th 1874 aged 26 years [headstone]
* "and son" is cut into the stone, but "son in law" is painted over it, the paint now (1910) wearing off.

[Richard]

William Ridley (died 1859) left a will, it is listed at Northumberland County Council.

Wills: proved 8 Feb 1860, of William Ridley of Knaresdale Hall, Knaresdale, died 21 March 1859, farmer, left six hundred pounds.

The full will might offer some more clues?

[zoejg]

Oh dear, I've somehow gone badly wrong somewhere - but I'm not sure where. Thank goodness I didn't start ordering certificates yet.

I've just realized that William is unmarried on the 1871 census, and the marriage I have is for 1870.

Sorry to have confused any of you kind enough to help. Off to try to sort this out now.

[zoejg]

The graves look hopeful - my William and Sarah called their daughter Tamar and Sarah did indeed die in 1874. Thanks also for the information about the will. I think I've gone wrong somewhere in the middle... still trying to work things out.

[zoejg]

I think I'm going to search for Thomas and Tamar Armstrong and work down from them to see if that makes things clearer. Working up has just confused me.

[Richard]

Thomas Armstrong and Tamar, only have one child baptised at Knaresdale:

William, son of Thomas Artmstrong and Tamar 04 JAN 1846 Knarsdale, Northumberland

I'm sure then it is him that marries under the surname Ridley in 1870 to Sarah Green, and that she dies young and is buried in his parents grave:

"In Memory of Tamar wife of Thomas Armstrong of Sanders Close who died May 18th 1846 aged 17 years. Also of Sarah wife of William Ridley son in law* of the above named who died at Town Green June 17th 1874 aged 26 years [headstone]
* "and son" is cut into the stone, but "son in law" is painted over it, the paint now (1910) wearing off."

Perhaps Tamars maiden name was Ridley, and he was baptised and bought up as Thomas Armstrongs son. Seems strange 'son' was cut into the stone, and 'son in law' then painted over it at a later date. Something unusual going on there clearly.

In any case your clearly right this is a different person to the William Ridley, baptised 1854, son of Thomas and Elizabeth Ridley, as you say he is still at home single in 1871.

[zoejg]

That's great Richard - yes, it appears Tamar was a Ridley - there is a Tamar Ridley who was christened on 13/7/1828.

[Richard]

Here they are in 1841, same adress Sanders Close, It was the Ridleys farm, by looks of it Thomas (Armstrong) was working for Tamars father.

Sanders Close, Knaresbridge, 1841

William Ridly 40 Farmer
Mary Ridly 40
Mary Ridly 14
Tamar Ridly 12
Jacob Ridly 10
Maria Ridly 6
John Ridly 4 months
Joseph Holmes 20 Ag Lab
Thomas Armstrong 20 Ag Lab

[Richard]

Hello Zoe been thinking about this,William Ridley/Armstrong, was baptised as the son of Thomas Armstrong in 1846, he names him as his father on his marriage, and he is carved in as his son on his mother Tamar, and wife Sarahs grave (only for it to be painted over later). Thats three seperate pieces of evidence that suggests he was natural son of Thomas Armstrong, rather than stepson.

Looking at the Ridley family grave, Tamars father William died in 1881. Of his 6 children sadly only one was still alive then, Jacob. He inherited Sanders Close, and the 1881 Census show it was quite a large holding nearly a thousand acres. Cannot find a marriage for Tamar and Thomas Armstrong, so perhaps she simply eloped with him, and William was born out of wedlock. Since she died soon after, maybe the Ridley family never forgave Thomas Armstrong for this, who was after all just a worker on their land? Maybe when William came of age he chose to retake his mothers name, and in some way try and gain from the Ridley connection and estate? Perhaps this in some way explains why 'son in law' was painted over his entry on his mother/wifes grave at later date?

Intriugingly there is a website here that has William Ridley/Armstrong down as a younger brother to Tamar, rather than son, and the owner claims to be certain with documentery evidence.

John Hill's Ancestry

He is not baptised as one of their children, but clearly was baptised as the son of Tamar and Thomas Armstrong. So what documentery evidence has he seen? Maybe William tried to claim Tamar was his older sister not his mother, and therby make a legitimate claim for a share of Jacob Ridleys inherited land?

Anyway, all very intriguing will be interested in what you find out.

If it helps here are the baptisms of William and Mary Ridley, and their family gravestone Inscription:

ELIZABETH RIDLEY - 23 OCT 1823 Knarsdale, Northumberland, England
MARY ANN RIDLEY - 25 JUN 1826 Knarsdale, Northumberland, England
TAMAR RIDLEY - 13 JUL 1828 Knarsdale, Northumberland, England
JACOB RIDLEY - 03 APR 1831 Knarsdale, Northumberland, England
MARIA RIDLEY - 16 NOV 1835 Knarsdale, Northumberland, England
JOHN RIDLEY - 07 MAR 1841 Knarsdale, Northumberland, England


"Sacred to the Memory of Elizabeth daughter of William and Mary Ridley who died at Stone Hall March 24 1836 aged 12 years.

Also of Maria their daughter who died at Sandersclose Jany 3rd 1849 aged 13 years.
Also of Mary Ann their daughter who died at Sandersclose Decr 21 1849 Aged 23 years.
Also of John their Son who died at Sandersclose April 20 1868 aged 27 years.

Also of the above named William Ridley who died at Sandersclose September 12th 1881 aged 84 years.
Also of Mary his wife who died September 8th 1880 aged 82 years"

[zoejg]

Wow, this really is looking like an interesting story. I think I need to get hold of that will for a start off... I hope this isn't going to be one of those riddles that never becomes entirely clear, because I'd love to find out what went on.

Many, many thanks for your help!

[Richard]

Zoe of you mean this will?

Wills: proved 8 Feb 1860, of William Ridley of Knaresdale Hall, Knaresdale, died 21 March 1859, farmer, left six hundred pounds.

I doubt it's going to help much as that is the father of the other Ridley family (of Knaresdale Hall), I'd be suprised if they don't link up further back though. That said I'd imagine since your William Ridley who died in 1881 had a large arable estate there at Sanders Close and his son Jacob inherits, that he also left a will, so probably worth trying to track one down. You never know might mention his grandson William Ridley/Armstrong.

[zoejg]

Yes, I'll probably get both. The thing is, I only started this journey into the profilic Ridley family in an attempt to find a mysterious relative called Jinny Ridley, who, according to my lovely but rather vague grandma, brought up my illegitimate grandfather Joseph Green - who was definitely NOT her child, he was the son of Hannah Green. Nan did actually meet this Jinny on several occasions, but has no idea whether she was related to my great-grandmother Hannah Green by blood or by marriage. She also doesn't know what her real name was. I'm guessing Virginia, but who knows... I can't ask my grandfather, since he died 30 years ago.

So I'm hoping that if I go as far back as possible with the Ridley family and then follow it forward again, Jinny Ridley might appear from under the cobwebs. It's a long shot, but it's become a bit of a mission.

Of course, now I'm completely absorbed in the ins and outs of all these other Ridleys I've found

[zoejg]

BTW, just found William and Mary on the 1861 census - with a William Ridley aged 16 listed as their grandson.

[Richard]

Zoe, Yes, clearly I was wrong thinking perhaps he 'reclaimed' his mothers surname, found the 1851 and 1871 too, seems he was bought up by them from childhood. I wonder whether the dad didn't stick around at all once the mother died? He is down as married on 1871 even though he is listed with his granparents...don't know where his wife and child were.


1851 Sanders Close, Knarsdale, Northumberland

William Ridley, Head, mar, 52, Farmer of 96 acres employing two labourers, Knarsdale, Northumberland
Mary Ridley, wife, 51 Farmes wife, Knarsdale, Northumberland
Jacob Ridley, son, 20, Farmers son, Knarsdale, Northumberland
John Ridley, son, 9, Farmers son, Knarsdale, Northumberland
William Ridley, grandson, 6, Scholar, Knarsdale, Northumberland
Joseph Kinnes, Servant 30, Shepherd, Knarsdale, Northumberland
Jane Bell, serv, 14, Farm Dairy Maid, Knarsdale, Northumberland


1861 Sanders Close, Knarsdale, Northumberland

William Ridley, Head, mar, 62, Farmer of 833 acres, Knarsdale, Northumberland
Mary Ridley, wife, 61 Farmes wife, Knarsdale, Northumberland
Jacob Ridley, son, 29, Farmers son, Knarsdale, Northumberland
John Ridley, son, 20, Farmers son, Knarsdale, Northumberland
William Ridley, grandson, 16, Shepherd, Knarsdale, Northumberland
Jane Birkett, serv, 18, General Servant, Knarsdale, Northumberland



1871 Sanders Close, Knarsdale, Northumberland

William Ridley, Head, mar, 74, Farmer of 835 acres, Knarsdale, Northumberland
Mary Ridley, wife, 73 , Knarsdale, Northumberland
William Ridley, grandson, Married, 26, Shepherd, Knarsdale, Northumberland
Matthew Ridley, serv, 30, Unmarried, Farm Servant Indoors, Knarsdale, Northumberland
Ann Roth, serv, 23, Unmarried, Farm Servant Indoors, Abbey Lanercost, Cumberland

[Richard]

Oh and I agree..they are absorbing. I'd love to know who got a tin of paint and went and painted on 'step son' on that headstone..and more importantly why!