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Joynes Robotham not on census

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  • Joynes Robotham not on census

    Hi everyone!
    I've been told that if I post here one of you experts may be able to help me out! (fingers crossed)
    At my nanas wake a discussion turned to her family (i had been looking at my paternal side but not hers).
    It turned out that she and her brother went by the surname Joynes Robotham although as far as we knew it had just been Joynes.
    My trail then goes onto her father but I cannot get any further than him!

    William Joynes Robotham
    I have his death certificate D 20/ 4/1939 Long Eaton, Derby aged 66.
    I also have a marriage certificate to Mabel Edith Holmes on 9/11 1907 at Long Eaton Parish Church giving his age as 30 (something doesn't add up!). On here his father is listed as Samuel Joynes Robotham.

    I can find no trace of his birth to apply for a certificate and no traces of any other Joynes Robothams on freebdm Etc. I have also tried the usual variants including Rowbottom!
    Can anyone offer me any help or advice on this as I would love to be able to trace back down this line.
    There was a rumour our greatgrandma was a 'lady' and by a process of elimination it would have to be this branch. It would also explain the double barrelled name, though not that William was a painter and decorator.

    Thank you in advance of any help ;)

  • #2
    Are they likely to have grown up in Long eaton?


    William Joynes Robotham
    I have his death certificate D 20/ 4/1939 Long Eaton, Derby aged 66. so born 1873
    Mabel Edith Holmes on 9/11 1907 age 30 so born 1877
    Last edited by Jessbowbag; 20-05-09, 21:38.
    Jess

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    • #3
      I've just found this, which is interesting if nothing else

      Marriages Jun 1880 (>99%)
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      HAWKSWORTH Matthew Derby 7b 688
      Joynes Samuel Staples Derby 7b 688
      Robotham Ann Derby 7b 688
      WHITTAKER Myra Derby 7b 688
      Hail Spode!

      Comment


      • #4
        Here they are in 1881

        Class: RG11; Piece: 3387; Folio: 7; Page: 5; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341809.

        There's a William Thomas Robotham with them aged 8 so probably ilegitimate or from a previous marriage.

        In 1891 William is now 18 and called William Joynes (transcribed James)

        Class: RG12; Piece: 2727; Folio 130; Page 5; GSU roll: 6097837.
        Hail Spode!

        Comment


        • #5
          If I'm on the right track, here's the birth

          Births Sep 1872

          Robotham William Thomas Shardlow 7b 361
          Hail Spode!

          Comment


          • #6
            Gosh, thanks guys, I can't believe how easily you did that!
            Now, excuse my lack of knowledge as a newbie, how do I go and pick up that reference (Class: RG11; Piece: 3387; Folio: 7; Page: 5; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341809) as I'm only used to searching via names/dates/ places?
            THANK YOU!

            Comment


            • #7
              If you're using the old search form on ancestry, go to the right census search page and at the bottom you have Piece, Folio, page just enter the info here and search.

              If you're using the new search or findmypast someone else will have to advise.
              Hail Spode!

              Comment


              • #8
                Or click these

                1881
                - Ancestry.co.uk

                1891
                - Ancestry.co.uk
                Hail Spode!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by guybrush View Post
                  If you're using the old search form on ancestry, go to the right census search page and at the bottom you have Piece, Folio, page just enter the info here and search.

                  If you're using the new search or findmypast someone else will have to advise.

                  Guy,

                  you can always post the url to the family on ancestry.. so all lozza has to do is click on the link, (this is also providing that she has an ancestry sub too)
                  Julie
                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                  .......I find dead people

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So it looks like Ann had William before she married Samuel and then he took on her maiden name as well so that it looked more 'respectable' to everyone else in that they wouldn't know they weren't both Williams parents.
                    They then also put Samuel down as his actual father on his marriage certificate.
                    I will request certificate copies to see if that sheds any more light!
                    Feel free to disagree with my theory if you have another!?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sounds right but I'll get a second opinion here before spending money.

                      I cant find him in 1901 but I have to go to bed now as I have an early fight to Zakynthos.
                      Hail Spode!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        1901
                        Class: RG13; Piece: 3216; Folio: 17; Page: 25

                        Samuel Joynes 47
                        Ann Joynes 48
                        Samuel Joynes 17
                        Rose Aran Joynes 15
                        Florrie Joynes 11
                        Ellen Joynes 9
                        Gertrude Hannah Joynes 6

                        Births Dec 1894
                        Joynes Gertrude Hannah Derby 7b 571

                        Births Jun 1886
                        Joynes Oliver James Derby 7b 565 <<wonder if he was a twin?
                        Joynes Rose Ann Derby 7b 565

                        he died which would account for him not appearing later

                        Deaths Mar 1887
                        Joynes Oliver James 0 Derby 7b 283
                        Last edited by Jessbowbag; 21-05-09, 08:57.
                        Jess

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Brill, Thanks Darkz and Guy, and Jess, i'm on find my past and have found both of those, am going to order the certificates now
                          P.S Nearly used all my credits on there so may change onto Ancestry!
                          Last edited by lozza; 20-05-09, 22:42.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Births Jun 1886
                            Joynes Oliver James Derby 7b 565 <<wonder if he was a twin?
                            Joynes Rose Ann Derby 7b 565
                            Jess, I'm sure you're right that these 2 were twins as theres' not data gap in that page on the records
                            Thank you

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks again for your help everyone.
                              Williams birth certificate (disappointingly) lists no father and his mother Ann Robotham as a spinster.
                              On her marriage to Samuel Staples Joynes she is listed as a spinster and he as a batchelor.
                              However, I can't find a borth record for Ann, every census states her place of birth as Whittaker, Warks. I've searched variants too, but nothing. Without her my trail on that side dies.
                              I know from the marriage her father was William Robotham (a brewer!) but once I look for his birth I am going pre birth certificate era!
                              Any ideas and can anyone recommend the best website for these older years to find baptisms when there are no birth certs?
                              Many Thanks in advance

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                A probable for 1861, Ann born Whitacre, Warks, Father William a labourer.

                                Class: RG9; Piece: 2490; Folio: 7; Page: 7;

                                And same family in 1871, though Ann isn't with them. William was a Brewers Labourer

                                Class: RG10; Piece: 3553; Folio: 14; Page: 24;
                                Last edited by Guest; 03-06-09, 01:34.

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                                • #17
                                  In 1881 William was a Brewery Labourer, and has a new wife.

                                  Class: RG11; Piece: 3387; Folio: 7; Page: 6;

                                  Looks like Betsey died in 3rd qrt 1873, Shardlow, age 49, vol 7b page 240

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                                  • #18
                                    A possible birth record for Ann

                                    Ann Robotham, 4th qrt 1850, Meriden, Warks, vol 16 page 479.

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                                    • #19
                                      Unfortunately in 1841, William isn't with his family.

                                      Class: HO107; Piece 188; Book: 7;

                                      Could be William and Betsy's marriage.

                                      William Robothame, 3rd qrt 1846, Derby, vol 19 page 476. On same page Betsey Turner.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by lozza View Post
                                        can anyone recommend the best website for these older years to find baptisms when there are no birth certs?
                                        Custom Search IGI Page

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