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Details on Marriage Cert. - are they wrong?

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  • Details on Marriage Cert. - are they wrong?

    I know we are always told to check on details and not to use just the finding aids but.... how often are the details on actual certificates wrong?

    I ask because I have a mystery on my hands and wonder if the name of the father on a marriage certificate could be incorrect.

    I have found 2 possible Margaret Goostry(s) - 1 born 1824 (Burnley) and 1 born 1835 (Hanley Staffs)

    The 1824 one appears on the IGI records as daughter of Samuel and Martha (Jackson) Goostry.

    The 1835 one appears as daughter of James Goostry on the 1841 and 1851 census. I can find what appear to be census records for her through her life including a marriage to a John Wood.

    The one born 1824 is, I believe, on the 1851 census living in the home of Samuel and Martha Goostry - now back in Staffs where Samuel was born. She is married to William Henry Jones and they have children. They are both shown as Inmate (or that is what it looks like to me) as the relation to the head of the household. Her age is 26 which is correct for being born 1824. I can then track them through all the following census records.

    Samuel and James are brothers - Sam born 1790 and James 1795 in Staffs.

    It all seems very straightforward BUT I have made contact with someone who has obtained a marriage certificate ( in 1845 - St Mary's Parish Church - Bury Lancashire) for the marriage between Margaret Goostry and William Henry Jones. His father is shown, correctly as Isaac Jones (who has a fantastic history as has William Henry's brother, John Pidding Jones) but Margaret's is shown as James Goostry (Coachman). If this was James's daughter she would only be be 10 years old, wheras the other Margaret would be 21. The certificate gives both their ages as Full Age so this does not really assist.

    I initially wondered if the local vicar had mixed up the 2 bothers and entered James in error but as the marriage took place in Bury, away from both the places Samuel and James were born and lived in, this is not likely.

    It may be that there is a further Margaret Goostry who had a father by the name of James and was born in 1824 as well and was for some reason lodging with Samuel and Martha Goostry, but I have searched extensively and cannot find one.

    Can anyone suggest how I could try to resolve this mystery? :(

    Thanks !
    Last edited by Muppet; 13-05-09, 17:02.

  • #2
    Do you know whether the marriage certificate your contact has is a photocopy of the original (which I presume was 1845, not 1945?) or has it been copied out? I would think that Saml, abbreviation for Samuel, could quite easily be misread as James. Was Samuel a coachman?
    KiteRunner

    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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    • #3
      Kite's explanation is extremely plausible. I have handwritten certificates where Ropemaker has been copied as Papermaker and Yeoman as Gasman!

      I have certificates where father's surname is incorrect and ALL the marriage certificates where I have personal knowledge contain errors or white lies.
      Phoenix - with charred feathers
      Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

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      • #4
        It should also be mentioned that L and S in old script can be mixed up by IGI transcribers:

        ANN LANSBURRY
        Female Marriage: 03 FEB 1825 Saint Marys, Portsea, Hampshire, England
        Spouse: JAMES WHITEHEAD

        LANSBURRY should actually be SANSBURY - as can be seen if you look at the microfiche, although I have to admit it isn't easy to read.

        Christine
        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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        • #5
          Do you have access to the early parish register records on Ancestry? (there may be parallels on the IGI, I haven't looked)

          It appears that there was a Samuel GOOSTRY b 21 Feb 1790 Hanley, Staffs, and James GOOSTRY b 23 Mar 1795, same place.

          I haven't looked in the censuses, but is there a connection between the two families in your post above?

          Christine
          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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          • #6
            I have just looked at the 1851 census & the Jones children are listed as grand dau & grandsons of Samuel.
            Moggie

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            • #7
              There are some public member trees on Ancestry which include both names,and might offer you some clues. You'd need to verify the info for youself - you can't be certain that they aren't all dependent upon the same sources, and unless you can check for yourself, you won't know how reliable those sources are.

              There's also an Ancestry World Tree entry as well.

              Christine
              Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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              • #8
                Thanks so much for all these replies.

                Yes, it should have been 1845 not 1945 ...apologies.

                I will try to get hold of a copy of the certificate which has been causing the confusion. The point about Saml. being easy to mistake with James is a good one.

                Sam 1790 and James 1795 were brothers born to John Goostry and Mary. Both born in Staffs.

                I have looked at the Ancestry.com parish records but these do not seem to help me on this problem.

                Christine pointed out that the children are down as grandchildren of Samuel so I think that should more or less confirm that he was the father of Margaret. Shouldn't it???

                Thanks again for all your ideas. I will follow everything up.
                Last edited by Muppet; 13-05-09, 17:04.

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                • #9
                  I have an extracted marriage on the iGI that is wrong, but I think that was just a mistranscription. It reads Hinkly, should be Kirkby.

                  But......I also have a birth cert with the father's name as Joseph instead of James. I've checked with the local RO and still I know the father is James. Could be a bit of a problem for anyone using that as their primary source.

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                  • #10
                    Problems can arise with Joseph and James if the name has been abbreviated to Jos. or Jas.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Blackberry View Post
                      Problems can arise with Joseph and James if the name has been abbreviated to Jos. or Jas.


                      That's what I thought, but the local RO at Chelmsford told me the name was written in full. All I can think of is it was the mother's brother who registered the birth. The mother was staying with her parents at Great Waltham helping her mum (from a letter). The family lived in Mashbury and it was the second child.

                      The bub was baptised a few weeks later back in Mashbury with the correct father.......lol

                      I'm presuming Uncle Joseph goes off to the RO to register William's birth, gives the mother's name and when asked what his name is.......answers, "Joseph".

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ah right, sounds like a simple misunderstanding there. Right answer, but to the wrong question. I bet there are quite a few of those lurking about!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Result!

                          I had got to point with this where I was not sure how to progress further.

                          Fortunatley I had made contact with a very helpful lady who is also related to that side of my family. She had already obtained the marriage certificate copy which gave James as the father and caused me so much confusion.

                          She has very kindly done more research and has come back to me to say that the copies done by the curate to send to the Government must have been done incorrectly as the original document does give Samuel as the father with his occupation as a coachman.

                          She has contacted the Southport GRO with a letter of explanation so hopefully this may be corrected now on the official records.

                          I am delighted that I can now put this to rest and calim these as my definite family.

                          It has been a useful lesson though for a novice in this field. Check, check check! and sometimes trust your gut instinct rather than the records.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Muppet View Post
                            She has contacted the Southport GRO with a letter of explanation so hopefully this may be corrected now on the official records.
                            I have a Lydiard death correctly recorded by the local RO but recorded and indexed as Sydiard by the GRO. The GRO showed no interest at all in correcting their records, and FreeBMD work strictly from the GRO indexes. The best I could achieve was a "postem" on FreeBMD.
                            Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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