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  • Death at Sea?

    I have a mariner who was based in Liverpool, and who died between 1851 and 1861. I have been through the death indexes and he is not there (although I realise that he just may not have been registered). I have also looked at the Nat. Archives with no luck for that far back.

    Does anyone know of a way to discover if this chap died at sea, and if so, what details may be available please?

    I have to turn off now, but will be back tomorrow evening so please don't think that I am being rude if anyone answers and I don't immediately reply
    Last edited by sally; 11-05-09, 21:36.
    Sally - Researching amongst others, JOSEPHY; WRIGHTSON; COOPER; GLOVER; DOWNING AND DICKINSON.

  • #2
    My 3x-great-grandfather was a mariner from Liverpool. He died at sea in 1863, on the way to Sydney. When I couldn't find his death registration, I thought I would try Australia, and I found it at New South Wales BDM.
    Sarah

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    • #3
      My OH has the misfortune to lose THREE of his direct ancestor at sea (2 of his great grandfathers and 1 gg grandfather). It is very difficult as there is no death certificate if there is no body :(

      We were lucky to find two of them on a list of trawlermen lost at sea from Hull, in the internet. With the date from the list we were then able to find some (sadly brief) newspaper articles about the losses. One was in 1895 and the other in 1908.

      The gg grandfather worked off a small boat in the Humber and disappears (like yours) between 1851 and 1861. We have begun the long task of looking through newspapers at Hull but don't very often get the chance as its a long way from here! We don't even know if he really was lost at sea or if he just never made it to a death registration :(. We have checked the burial registers of likely Hull churches with no result.

      Sadly deaths at sea seem to have been rather taken for granted in those days and the lost seamen hardly merit a name in a list in the newspaper.

      You could try finding out what sort of ship/boat your man worked on and see if there are any lists of losses. You could try the 19C Newspapers on line (Gale archive) if you can get onto it. Unfortunately not all areas are covered by the project and we haven't found anything about our lost sailor (even though Hull is one of the areas covered).

      Anne

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      • #4
        1851 to 1861 must be a popular 10 years as i've lost my 4 x great grandfather, a marriner. I've narrowed it down to 1851 - 1856 as his wife remarried as a widow. The family lived in Scarborough & Middlesborough.

        Any pointers to websites/list would be handy.
        Jay

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        • #5
          I had an ancestor who died at sea in 1863. There's no death reg for him or any of the crew of four who all drowned. The widow had to swear various extra oaths in court to get probate for the will of my ancestor because there was no body. I presume it was the lack of a body that led to the lack of a death registration? I was lucky in that the loss of his boat was reposted in The Times.

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          • #6
            Would there have been a will - or a list of effects or something like that.

            I had a mariner who drowned in 1876 off the Farne Islands and he left (can't remember the term but it wasn't a will) detailing what he owned.

            Perhaps if you look in Liverpool's records you might find something that indicates when the death was.



            Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

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            • #7
              Originally posted by JayG View Post
              1851 to 1861 must be a popular 10 years as i've lost my 4 x great grandfather, a marriner. I've narrowed it down to 1851 - 1856 as his wife remarried as a widow. The family lived in Scarborough & Middlesborough.

              Any pointers to websites/list would be handy.
              Jay this is the Middlesbrough search site ;;

              Search The Tees Valley Indexes

              And the boro archives one

              Middlesbrough Council : Archives

              there is another one for there but sorry carnt find at mo ,,,if he was living here when he went missing I will go and look for you to see if they have anything
              borobabs passed away March 2018

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              • #8
                My gt grandfather had 3 brothers who I believe were drowned in the same accident at sea but I have found no record of it - or any idea when it occurred.

                if the bodies were washed up sometime later they would often be unidentifiable.
                ~ with love from Little Nell~
                Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                • #9
                  I have a feeling that deaths at sea would only be registered on the GRO index if the vessel was British-registered. Quite a few of mine don't seem to be on the indexes though I'm sure they died at sea.
                  KiteRunner

                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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                  • #10
                    So there wouldnt be anything in the archives local then Kite ???
                    borobabs passed away March 2018

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                    • #11
                      Don't know for sure, Babs, sorry, because the only archives I've been to are in Nottingham! About as far from the sea as you can get in Britain!
                      KiteRunner

                      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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                      • #12
                        If you think he might have died off Scotland - between 1855 -2006

                        you could look in the statutory records the minor records include-

                        Air Register
                        Consular Returns
                        Declarer of Death
                        Foreign Returns
                        High Commission Returns
                        Marine Register
                        Service Returns



                        Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

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                        • #13
                          Ok Kite ,,,havnt ever looked for out like that myself so didnt know but we are near a port and north sea ;;;
                          sorry to take so long but comp and everything going so dam slow
                          borobabs passed away March 2018

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                          • #14
                            I have a mariner who goes missing from Hull & then his wife remarries as a widow, without any death being found. This would be the most likely explanation.
                            Lynn

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                            • #15
                              At one point deaths could only be registered if the person died on board ship or the body turned up.

                              My ancestor, a pilot, drowned during a storm and I have several newspaper report of his death and he is also commemorated on his wife's headstone. So I know the exact date.

                              Maybe try local newspapers if you have an approximate date.
                              Gwynne

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                              • #16
                                Death at sea

                                Have you tried Find my past -they have deaths at sea 1854-1890 also ,if you register for free ,you can search Familyrelatives.com overseas records -they have Marine deaths and consular deaths -Might be worth a try if you havn't searched already

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                                • #17
                                  "Died at sea" usually means there was a body, a confirmed death, which could be attested and recorded.
                                  "Lost at sea" is usually used for a shipwreck, capsize, fall etc, when there is a disappearance into the water, but no body found.
                                  There were loads of boats sailing up and down the coast and sadly, many "unknowns" were washed ashore and buried in the coastal villages where they were found. The burial registers for the East Yorks coastal villages between Bridlington and Scarborough record lots of such sad cases. I would think other stretches of coastline tell the same sad stories.
                                  A small boat could be wrecked with the loss of all hands, a couple of hundred miles away from its port of origin. The recovery of bodies may have been reported in a newspaper in the discovery area, but loved ones at home would have no idea what had happened to their men, or where.
                                  I think the "missing, presumed dead" scenario would apply in these cases.

                                  Jay
                                  Janet in Yorkshire



                                  Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                                  • #18
                                    Sally,
                                    Heathert's suggestion of the findmypast deaths at sea is worth trying ( post his name if you haven't a subscription).
                                    I found a Dalzell on it, whose death is registered as normal (I found it on FreeBMD), but he actually died on board a ship in Newport Harbour.
                                    The index is a fantastic resource...there are loads of foreigners, who must have been on route somewhere, who are listed, I'm sure it would solve a few puzzles if only their descendents looked at the list.
                                    ~ Louise ~

                                    Researching Dalzell, Highmore & Sumpton in Cumbria, also Braidford & Chevalier

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                                    • #19
                                      I looked for years for one of my rellies who died at sea and gave up but by sheer accident whilst looking throught he times Digtial archives for another person with the same surname I found a report of his death. He fell overboard and it gave a date of when it happened. I looked at the records but there was no death recorded. I assumed it was because they found no body. But having the report from the paper put it to rest for me.
                                      GWEN

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                                      • #20
                                        I found a death notice for mine in the Liverpool Mercury (part of the Gale 19th Century Newspapers collection), but not until 4 months after his death - presumably that was when word got back to Liverpool from Australia.
                                        Sarah

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