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Trying to find Alfred's Dad and the rest of his pre marriage family

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  • Trying to find Alfred's Dad and the rest of his pre marriage family

    I have today received the marriage certificate of Arthur Wilson and Elizabeth Mulligan. To recap the marriage took place on 2nd July 1891 in Sculcoates, Hull.

    It shows that whoever it was that thought Thomas Wilson was Arthur's father is absolutely correct. It shows that his father was also a picture frame maker. Now I have my problem, a wacking great brickwall.

    I did find for the 1881 census an entry that shows the head of the household as Charlotte Wilson (no Thomas) and it could be a real coincidence but Arthur is shown to be a picture frame maker ref: RG11 4774

    I would have thought though that if Thomas was already deceased, it would have said so on the certificate and it doesn't. As the title says, I have spent ages looking but can't see the wood for the trees, so can someone please help? I tried Wilson and Welson for various years but can't seem to find a census entry showing both an Arthur and a Thomas.

  • #2
    Was it a church wedding? Vicar's often didn't bother about the living/dead status of fathers!

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    • #3
      The Arthur whose mother was Charlotte in 1881 had a father called John in 1871 and he (the father) was the one who was a gilder and frame maker.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
        Was it a church wedding? Vicar's often didn't bother about the living/dead status of fathers!
        Yes it was a church wedding Merry, it was St Phillips Church. One way of getting the details would be Arthur's birth certificate but there were rather a lot of Arthur Smiths born in Hull around 1864, the date I gestimate Arthur would have been born.

        Do you think there is any possibility that Arthur's mother was Charlotte, Thomas was killed and John married her, so that Arthur would not be born illegitimately?
        Last edited by LorraineJ; 30-04-09, 17:45.

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        • #5
          Or the name on the 1871 census could be a mistake?
          KiteRunner

          Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
          (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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          • #6
            I think you might be right, Kite.

            Thomas (in 1861) and John (in 1871) have the "same" age. There's this death in Hull which fits for age, but there's no death for a John:

            Deaths Jun 1874
            WILSON Thomas 53 Hull 9d 154

            This seems the best fit for Arthur, given he is 7 in 1871:

            Births Jun 1864
            WILSON Arthur Hull 9d 192

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            • #7
              So what you are saying is that John is a mistake given the ages and thats why I couldn't find Thomas with his family.

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              • #8
                The abbreviations Jno and Tho could quite easily be mistaken for each other.
                KiteRunner

                Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by LorraineJ View Post
                  So what you are saying is that John is a mistake given the ages and thats why I couldn't find Thomas with his family.
                  Yes! I think that is very likely, esp with what Kite said about Jno/Tho.

                  but there were rather a lot of Arthur Smiths born in Hull around 1864
                  Good job that wasn't his name then!!! (sorry, I couldn't resist!)

                  I would think the Q2 1864 birth cert is fairly likely to be the right one.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
                    Yes! I think that is very likely, esp with what Kite said about Jno/Tho.



                    Good job that wasn't his name then!!! (sorry, I couldn't resist!)

                    I would think the Q2 1864 birth cert is fairly likely to be the right one.
                    Sorry all the Alberts, Arthurs and Alfreds on both sides of the family are doing my proverbial head in.

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                    • #11
                      Thank you very much for your help; I have found Thomas and Charlotte in the 1861 census and then he was a Gilder, carver and picture frame maker.

                      Ten years before he was a furniture dealer.
                      Last edited by LorraineJ; 01-05-09, 13:08.

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                      • #12
                        Have had fun and games this morning trawling through and finding the marriage of Thomas and Charlotte on IGI. They were married in Sept 1840 Sculcoates in Yorkshire.

                        However, though I expected to find them in the 1841 census without too much problem, the only pair I have been able to find is in Bethnal Green. If I have read the entry right it looks as if he was a silk broker, do you think that this could be right? The reference is HO107 694 8.

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                        • #13
                          Erm, have I missed something? How do you know Charlotte's maiden name?

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                          • #14
                            Her name came up on Family Search under advanced search and matches in with when their first child was born.

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                            • #15
                              I guess the marriage you have found is the submitted one between Thomas Wilson and Charlotte Metcalf?

                              I think I have found that couple in 1841:

                              Elizabeth Milner 65 green grocer born in county? Yes
                              Thomas Wilson 30 labourer Yes
                              Charlotte Wilson 30 Yes
                              Eliza Wilson 5mths Yes
                              Charles Metcalf 25 labourer Yes


                              living in Hull.


                              So, whilst I can't prove these are not yours or that they are definitely the couple who married the previous year, it's worrying that your Charlotte was only 27 on the following census and this Charlotte says she was born in county. Also Thomas' occupation doesn't fit, though it well might not.

                              You need to get Arthur's birth cert to check Charlotte's previous surname(s). All you know is that she and Thomas were living as man and wife in 1851, but you don't know that she is the mother of all the children showing on the 1851 census. Once you have the birth cert you can look for the marriage with more confidence. (and you won't have to trawl the IGI - most likely you will find it with a few clicks of FreeBMD!! lol)

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                              • #16
                                According to all the censuses I have been able to find, they all say that Charlotte was born somewhere in Lincolnshire, but I haven't able to make out exactly where.

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                                • #17
                                  Morton seems the most likely.

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                                  • #18
                                    people's ages were very flexible, and i have ancestor's who say they were born in the county in 1841, but reveal they were not in all future census!!

                                    i have ancestors who stayed the same age, and didn't age more than a few year on each census

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
                                      people's ages were very flexible, and i have ancestor's who say they were born in the county in 1841, but reveal they were not in all future census!!

                                      i have ancestors who stayed the same age, and didn't age more than a few year on each census
                                      Fair enough, but I woudn't choose this marriage (Wilson/Metcalf) over the various other possible ones, esp as on the following census there are two couples called Thomas and Charlotte Wilson from Hull!! The "other" Thomas and Charlotte could be the Wilson/Metcalf couple, but I can't prove it! lol

                                      Thants why I suggested that Lorraine bought Arthur's birth cert. She doesn't want to be doing some one elses family tree!! lol

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                                      • #20
                                        that's a very good point merry.:D

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