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Help please - very lost deceased gg grandmother

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  • Help please - very lost deceased gg grandmother

    Hope really soon I will be able to find out as much info as everyone else does. My question is:
    My great grandfather Thomas Read born 1847 in Taunton Somerset was a child of Thomas Read born 1812 in Liverpool. As he was in the Army his children were born in various places. On the 1851 census he is down as being spelt REID not READ. His wife's name is Ellen and it states she is born in Barbados British National. She died ?? and he married again to a Dinah Brown, and they had more children. I have the birth certificates of his children with Ellen and they state mother as Ellen Elvin.
    This is where I have come to a full stop, I cannot find out anything about her or mention of any of her family. I have wedding certificate of Thomas & Dinah and it states he was a widower, so she must have died!! I presume!
    Any halp on this would be gratefully appreciated.
    :(
    PHP Code:
    Jill 

  • #2
    Where were they living in the 1851 census, and when and where did he marry Dinah Brown, please?
    KiteRunner

    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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    • #3
      I see Thomas senr is recorded as 39 in 1851.

      There is an army record you can buy from The National Archives online for a Thomas Read b Liverpool who was discharged from the army aged 40 between 1812 and 1852. Obviously the dates are really tight and it most likely isn't your chap, but I wondered if the birth cert for Thomas Junr gave any further info on Thomas senrs regiment? The army record Thomas Read was in the 5th foot regiment.

      Maybe you can ignore the above if you know your Thomas was still in the army after 1852! If it turned out to be the correct record it may well have a lot of personal detail included.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by KiteRunner View Post
        Where were they living in the 1851 census, and when and where did he marry Dinah Brown, please?
        Hi - thanks for speedy response. On 1851 census family was in Chatham Barracks. Thomas Read & Dinah Brown were married at St Marys Church Kirkdale, Walton on the Hill Liverpool in 1859. Thanks
        :(
        PHP Code:
        Jill 

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
          I see Thomas senr is recorded as 39 in 1851.

          There is an army record you can buy from The National Archives online for a Thomas Read b Liverpool who was discharged from the army aged 40 between 1812 and 1852. Obviously the dates are really tight and it most likely isn't your chap, but I wondered if the birth cert for Thomas Junr gave any further info on Thomas senrs regiment? The army record Thomas Read was in the 5th foot regiment.

          Maybe you can ignore the above if you know your Thomas was still in the army after 1852! If it turned out to be the correct record it may well have a lot of personal detail included.
          Hi - thanks for the response. Thomas was not in the Army in 1852 on his marriage cert to Dinah Brown in 1859 it states he was a Publican, but I suppose he may have still been in Army now I work out there was 7 years before marriage. In actual fact his last child with Ellen was born in 1854 in Hull Yorkshire so he was still in the Army. Has this confused everything a little bit more!!!
          :(
          PHP Code:
          Jill 

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          • #6
            So in 1861 there is a son John age 7 born Yorkshire Beverley and then daughter Jane age 1 born Liverpool. Presumably Ellen was John's mother? In which case her death must be between John's birth and 1859. Do you have John's birth certificate? And were there any more children born after him with Ellen as mother? (sorry, cross-posted, I see there weren't!)
            KiteRunner

            Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
            (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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            • #7
              Oh dear, I see there are loads of Ellen Read deaths between 1854 and 1859, and of course the GRO index doesn't give age at death for that period and she could have died anywhere in the country! I would guess her death was closer to 1854 than 1859 just because of the gap between children, but of course there could be others who died. Maybe we should try to find Thomas and Ellen's marriage instead of her death?
              KiteRunner

              Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
              (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

              Comment


              • #8
                here are the deaths for ellen re*d. not withstanding the variations of ellen.

                Deaths Dec 1854
                Read Ellen Haslingden 8e 59
                Deaths Jun 1855
                Redmond Ellen Liverpool 8b 4
                Deaths Dec 1856
                Reed Ellen Bolton 8c 128
                Reid Ellen Louisa W. Derby 8b 220
                Deaths Mar 1857
                Redford Ellen Salford 8d 57
                Reid Ellen Liverpool 8b 94
                Deaths Mar 1858
                READ Ellen Preston 8e 305
                Deaths Jun 1858
                Redford Ellen Berry Barton 8c 265
                Deaths Jun 1859
                REID Ellen Preston 8e 318
                Deaths Sep 1859
                REED Ellen Jane Chorlton 8c 331 Sview
                Deaths Dec 1859
                Redford Ellen Leigh 8c 109


                ellen reid in 1857 looks good. can't see a marriage on the igi or freebmd.
                Last edited by kylejustin; 24-04-09, 11:15.

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                • #9
                  I don't understand how you got that list, Kyle? Searching on FreeBMD brings up loads of Ellen READ deaths in that time frame, not just the few you have listed?
                  KiteRunner

                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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                  • #10
                    Searching for their marriage, I'm trying to figure out when their first child was born? Was Ann E (born Hull, age 9 on the 1851 census) their first child, and do you have her birth certificate?
                    KiteRunner

                    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well now I am totally confused. The only birth certificate I was waiting for was John born in Beverley Yorkshire and the postman has just been!! It states. John born on 18.3.1854 to Thomas Read and EllenRead (formerly Daly!!!) Thomas was a sargeant in Army. Do you think this is the wrong certificate or maybe a coincidence with Mum Ellen ??? affair after death!!! What am I thinking...
                      :(
                      PHP Code:
                      Jill 

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                      • #12
                        these are just ellen re*d deaths in lancashire. he was from there, and he's last child with her was born there as well wasn't he?

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                        • #13
                          I see now, no, their last child was born in Yorkshire.
                          KiteRunner

                          Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                          (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jillmyo View Post
                            Well now I am totally confused. The only birth certificate I was waiting for was John born in Beverley Yorkshire and the postman has just been!! It states. John born on 18.3.1854 to Thomas Read and EllenRead (formerly Daly!!!) Thomas was a sargeant in Army. Do you think this is the wrong certificate or maybe a coincidence with Mum Ellen ??? affair after death!!! What am I thinking...

                            She could be one of those people who wasn't sure of what her maiden name was - for instance, maybe her mother was an Elvin and her father a Daly or vice versa. Or they could be two different Ellens.
                            KiteRunner

                            Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                            (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sorry, forgot to answer your other question - I'm sure it is the right certificate. Though of course it could have a mistake on it.
                              KiteRunner

                              Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                              (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                my thinking was because his child with dinah was born in yorks, and he married dinah in liverpool, that she would have died there.

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                                • #17
                                  Kiterunner...I`ve spent the last 20 mins trying to find Thomas Read/Ellen Elvin marriage....nothing as yet...I fear they may have married in Barbados ..possible army barracks ?....Thomas READ (not REID)..is a very common name in Liverpool....dozens of Thomas Read to Ellen.....in Liverpool alone....allan;)
                                  Allan ......... researching oakes/anyon/standish/collins/hartley/barker/collins-cheshire
                                  oakes/tipping/ellis/jones/schacht/...garston, liverpool
                                  adams-shropshire/roberts-welshpool
                                  merrick/lewis/stringham/nicolls-herefordshire
                                  coxon/williamson/kay/weaver-glossop/stockport/walker-gorton

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                                  • #18
                                    either they were married after 1837 and havn't been transcribed, or they marrie dbefore 1837. alternatively, they may never have married.

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                                    • #19
                                      The trouble is, if you look at the different places where the children were born - Hull, Belfast, Taunton, Newport (IOW), Chatham, Beverley, Liverpool - if they carried on moving around like that then Ellen could have died anywhere.
                                      KiteRunner

                                      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
                                        either they were married after 1837 and havn't been transcribed, or they marrie dbefore 1837. alternatively, they may never have married.
                                        They could have married abroad though.
                                        KiteRunner

                                        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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