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  • Help wanted with search please!!

    Hi All,

    I am researching my German ancestors and I have noticed on the 1891 census it has under where born - Germany, British Subject. I have tried to search the National Archives database for her name: Mary S Wilmes but it doesn't seem to have any records available. Is there a way I can do a wild card search? I was planning to visit Kew in the next couple of weeks but feel there will be no need if the records are not there.

    Kind regards,

    Julia

  • #2
    Hi Julia, and welcome to FTF.

    What records were you hoping to find at Kew? They do have some naturalisation records, but a British subject born abroad wouldn't need to be naturalised.

    You could try searching the overseas BMDs on findmypast.com to see if you can find her birth.

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    • #3
      Hi Julia,
      Welcome to the Site. I couldnt find her in 1891 Census to check her age or other detail.
      Perhaps contact with the British Embassy in Berlin where they should have information on Brits visiting the country.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Mary, Hi Alan,

        thank you for your replies - I can now see that I haven't given you enough information really so I hope this helps. Maria or Mary has the second name of Hearn in the 1891 census and she is living in Chorlton upon Medlock with her husband Walter and two children. She also has German parents, Elisabeth and Adam Wilmes - would this mean that she still wouldn't need to have naturalisation records?

        Thank you once again,

        Julia

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        • #5
          If she was born in Germany but classed as a British Subject which is what it says on the 1891 census it means she is British but would be registered as born abroad and you would look on Findmypast for Overseas births for her.
          It usually means the parents were British or at least the father I think.
          Margaret
          PS being British already she wouldn't need to be Naturalised.

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          • #6
            How do you know her parents are German?
            Margaret

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            • #7
              Just had a look on the 1881 census and see both parents listed as born in Essen Germany. Perhaps Maria was included on her father's naturalisation or if he was naturalised she was automatically so.
              Margaret

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              • #8
                And then there is the other possibility - she lied! Many foreign born people did lie, it was a lot easier.

                However, if she married a British man, she automatically took British citizenship.

                OC

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                • #9
                  In the 1881 census it says all three of them were born in Assen, Germany.

                  In 1891 Elizabeth's a widow, and it says she was born in Germany, not naturalised.

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                  • #10
                    Ooh thank you - I see now that if Adam Wilmes or Elizabeth Wilmes are not on the database at the National Archives then they probably never became naturalised! Very interesting stuff. I have tried to contact the holder of a tree from Germany on Ancestry who has a Johannes Adam Wilmes as an ancestor but with no luck so far. I have the marriage certificate for Mary and Walter Hearn which states that her father, Adam Wilmes is deceased. I am also in contact with a couple of other ancestors of the Hearn/Wilmes who have found information on the death of Adam Wilmes and the whereabouts for Elizabeth Wilmes too. Maybe I will just have to be satisfied that this is as far as I can go - I have included some things from the IGI Search engine but as this is not a primary source I am a bit dubious.

                    Thank you once again,

                    Julia

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                    • #11
                      Just as a matter of interest, Walter shows living in Chorlton on 1911 census. It's a pay by credits site "1911census.co.uk"

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                      • #12
                        And Mary Hearn born Germany's in the same household.

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                        • #13
                          Yes I see my great grandmother Emma is present too. I have tried to google these place names in Germany but with no luck - do you think the spellings are correct? did the 1911 census get filled in by the household members or an official?

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                          • #14
                            It clearly says Assen on the 1881 census, but I don't think there's a place of that name (although my German geography isn't very good). There's a big city called Essen in Germany, which may be what they mean:

                            Essen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                            or it might be the state of Hesse:

                            Hesse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                            The householder was supposed to fill in the 1911 census form (if they were literate).
                            If you buy the census image, you can see who filled it in, and their signature.
                            Last edited by Mary from Italy; 23-04-09, 20:35.

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                            • #15
                              Don't know German geography, but I HAVE heard of Essen!

                              Householders filled in the schedules themselves in 1911, so the spelling is their own.

                              OC

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                              • #16
                                Another place where you can find naturalisations is the Gazette:

                                Advanced Search

                                but I can't see Adam there, so probably none of them were naturalised, and Mary acquired British citizenship by marriage.

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                                • #17
                                  Thank you for all the information - I am now going to read up on the places in Germany that you've all mentioned!

                                  Julia

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                                  • #18
                                    There's an Assen in Holland, about 50 km from the German border.
                                    Sarah

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                                    • #19
                                      Looking at Directory of Cities and Towns in World I have just found an Assen in Germany.
                                      It's in Nordrhein-Westfalen: Maps, Weather, and Airports for Assen, Germany
                                      Sarah

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                                      • #20
                                        Thank you Sarah - this also fits with the details on the LDS IGI index as it shows an Adam Wilmes married Elisabeth Halbe in Westfalen Preussen in 1858!

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