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  • So confused over IGI/Pedigrees

    Hi all

    I have found the start of a pedigree which states a set of parents. However, when I went on the normal individual records, lo and behold there was a different set of parents. It is the same family, as it is the same marriage, just with different parents of the groom. Which way do I go, if either, and how do I know which is correct?

    I would appreciate any help on this and wonder if anyone else has come across this before and what did they do?

    Yours hopefully

    treesa

  • #2
    Treesa

    Go with the EXTRACTED records and ignore the pedigree.

    Pedigrees are the weakest of resources and are often just made up to satisfy the religious requirements of membership of the Mormon Church.

    OC

    Comment


    • #3
      Extracted IGI records are always more likely to be reliable than any other LDS material. That's not to say that extractions are always right, or submissions always wrong. Whichever you use, you'll need to refer to the originals.

      In the situation you describe, I'd note both, but opt to use the more reliable-looking one. Just make sure you note the references, so that you can follow it up later if you need to unravel anything!

      Christine
      Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks very much for your valuable help. So I should go with the individual record even though the birth date is so different fronm the one on the pedigree?

        On pedigree it says b1756 yet in the individual record it says b1780 and the marriage took place in 1796!

        Comment


        • #5
          Could they be people with the same name but from different generations?
          Remember that people are working from script - 5 & 8 can look similar, likewise 0 & 6.

          Oh, and marriages weren't always before baptisms!

          Christine
          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

          Comment


          • #6
            I think I am more confused than ever now. I will have to go back and work from the last known correct point again.

            Comment


            • #7
              A marriage at that period is unlikely to give parents names or ages of the partners.

              There ought to be two separate records: the marriage and the baptism of the husband. A genuinely extracted record would not link the two.
              Phoenix - with charred feathers
              Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

              Comment


              • #8
                I've found pedigrees with people being baptised before their mother was born! Lots of tweaking too, to cover up illegitimacy etc.

                That said, some pedigree information does check out - but you do need to check the records where possible, even with extracted info.
                ~ with love from Little Nell~
                Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                Comment


                • #9
                  Treesa, if you can post up the name and details you have found maybe we can give some more advice.
                  KiteRunner

                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My basic rule of thumb is:

                    an EXTRACTED entry is (or is supposed to be) a transcription of what has been written in the original parish register.

                    a pedigree is someone's interpretation of what happened to an individual or family over a period of time -this may be based on PR entries, guesswork (best fit), or pure fiction (couldn't find any data at all).

                    I do look at pedigrees/trees - found one a couple of days ago, which was incorrect, but ref to a census appearance gave me a vital clue.

                    Jay
                    Janet in Yorkshire



                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Right -io

                      I have Thomas Crossley bc 1823 Bury. On census with mother Ann, a widow. Then I have a marriage between Thomas Crossly and the said Ann (Holt) 1819 Whitefield, Lancs.

                      Ann Holt from census bc 1796, Whitefield, Lancs. Now it gets a bit tricky. On pedigrees on IGI there is the marriage of Ann and Thomas, Ann stated as bc 1799, father is John Holt b1756, m 1796 to Sarah Dawson. Following through on the highlighted names, father of John Holt is James Holt, mother Ann Blakeley. However the individual entries for John Holt's marriage to Sarah Dawson in 1796 state he was bc1780 and married in 1796, and his parents were Edward Holt and Molly Blezzard.

                      Hope you understand this complicated post!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thomas Crossley & Ann Holt's marriage is on the Lancashire OnLine Parish Clerk Project site. They were married in Prestwich, but lived in Whitefield:

                        Marriage: 23 Feb 1819 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
                        Thomas Crossley - (X), of Whitefield
                        Ann Holt - (X), of Whitefield
                        Witness: William ?Lus; Edw. Redford
                        Married by Banns by: ?J T Kirkbank
                        Register: Marriages 1809 - 1819, Page 529, Entry 2650
                        Source: LDS Film 2356185

                        You would need to find the baptism for Thomas Crossley (c1823) to see if Thomas Crossley & Ann Holt are the right parents.
                        Here's the link to the Bury registers transcribed so far: http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Bury/index.html

                        Here are just a couple of the many Ann Holt baptisms in Prestwich:

                        Baptism: 7 May 1797 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
                        Ann Holt - Daughter of Thomas Holt & Matty
                        Abode: Whitefield
                        Register: Baptisms 1791 - 1812, Page 47, Entry 29
                        Source: LDS Film 2356182

                        Baptism: 17 Nov 1799 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
                        Ann Holt - Daughter of James Holt & Alice
                        Abode: Prestwich
                        Register: Baptisms 1791 - 1812, Page 64, Entry 14
                        Source: LDS Film 2356182
                        Last edited by Cloggie; 20-04-09, 19:43.
                        Sarah

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Looking at the entries, they have been submitted by different people. But if I were you I would ignore all of it and do your own research from the parish registers, as it is impossible to tell which of the entries (if any) is right.
                          KiteRunner

                          Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                          (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I agree with Kite Runner, better to do your own research from scratch than to try to fathom out whether a pedigree is correct or not!

                            Yes, sometimes pedigrees ARE correct but I never think it is worth checking them when you could be doing primary research in the same time.

                            OC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks everyone very much for your sound advice. I will start again and see if I can find the correct entries. I favour the bapt of Ann, parents Thomas and Matty, but not sure at this moment in time. Do you think Matty should have been Betty? Unless it is short for Matilda?

                              Thanks very much again, you have been great.

                              treesa

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I think Matty can be short for Martha, as well!

                                anne

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  There is only one baptism with mother Matty on the lancs site and I can't find a death for her either. There is another bapt with Thomas and Martha, but much earlier.

                                  Lots of records, on the lancs site, but how to unravel them!!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    It can also be a name in its own right. There are quite a few Matty baptisms in the Prestwich register, such as:

                                    Baptisms: 1 Jan 1765 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
                                    Matty Chapman - Daughter of Lawrence Chapman & Ann
                                    Abode: Prestwich
                                    Register: Baptisms 1752 - 1768, Page 54, Entry 14
                                    Source: LDS Film 2356182

                                    Baptisms: 25 Jan 1767 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
                                    Matty Walkdon - Daughter of Samuel Walkdon & Ann
                                    Abode: Whitefield
                                    Register: Baptisms 1752 - 1768, Page 60, Entry 6
                                    Source: LDS Film 2356182

                                    Baptisms: 14 Aug 1768 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
                                    Matty Hilton - Daughter of Thomas Hilton & Hannah
                                    Abode: Whitefield
                                    Register: Baptisms 1752 - 1768, Page 64, Entry 18
                                    Source: LDS Film 2356182

                                    Baptisms: 16 May 1769 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
                                    Matty Mather - Daughter of John Mather & Mary
                                    Abode: Whitefield
                                    Register: Baptisms 1769 - 1790, Page 2, Entry 12
                                    Source: LDS Film 2356182

                                    Baptisms: 2 Oct 1776 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
                                    Matty Holland - Daughter of John Holland & Alice
                                    Abode: Whitefield
                                    Register: Baptisms 1769 - 1790, Page 31, Entry 24
                                    Source: LDS Film 2356182

                                    Baptisms: 14 Jul 1778 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
                                    Matty Walker - Daughter of Peter Walker & Ann Gregory
                                    Abode: Radtcliff [sic]
                                    Register: Baptisms 1769 - 1790, Page 41, Entry 11
                                    Source: LDS Film 2356182
                                    Sarah

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      There is also this baptism, of the son of Charles Holt & Matty:

                                      Baptisms: 1 Aug 1819 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
                                      Michael Holt - Child of Charles Holt & Matty
                                      Born: 11 Jun 1819
                                      Abode: Whitefield
                                      Occupation: Weaver
                                      Baptised by: J. T. Kirkbank
                                      Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1821, Page 229, Entry 1829
                                      Source: LDS Film 2356182
                                      Sarah

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by treesa View Post
                                        There is only one baptism with mother Matty on the lancs site and I can't find a death for her either. There is another bapt with Thomas and Martha, but much earlier.

                                        Lots of records, on the lancs site, but how to unravel them!!
                                        Keep in mind that the transcribed records aren't complete. Prestwich burials only go up to 1812 at the moment and there are some big gaps too (e.g. 1711-1769, 1774-1792).

                                        Click on baptisms, marriages and burials on the Prestwich page for more information, such as "Pages 66 - 67, 114 - 115, 162 - 163 and 172 - 173 are missing from the Baptism Register for 1821 to 1828."
                                        Last edited by Cloggie; 21-04-09, 14:39.
                                        Sarah

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