View Full Version : thoughts please on burial but no babtism

13-04-09, 09:07
good morning...I have my 5 x g grandparents
Ralph and Mary Oakes in Backford,cheshire in the late 1700`s...thankfully Backford Parish records are online via www.csc.liv.ac/~cprdb ..I have the babtisms of
Elizabeth Oakes 1776
Peter Oakes 1779
Daniel Oakes 1782 my direct ancestor
15 minutes ago I was looking for a possible burial of someone else when I came across a burial for
Hannah Oakes 18 April 1790 fathers name Ralph Oakes...so I looked for a Babtism for Hannah....there`s none there....I suppose that if Hannah died within a couple of days of birth she may never have been Babtised.,but I am also aware that in those days babies were often babtised the next day .....having been to Backford and seen how small a village it is I am pretty sure that Hannah was Ralph and Marys child....there were other Oakes family members in Backford at the time....but to my knowledge only 1 Ralph Oakes..
Has anyone any thoughts or ideas as to whether they think that Hannah IS Ralph and Marys daughter ?.....or am I being a little naive....thanks ....allan:)

13-04-09, 09:41
It certainly seems likely that Hannah is part of the same family. It's possible, if she was poorly from birth, that she was baptised at home - this can be done in an emergency not only by the vicar but also a midwife or other person present. If this were the case it ought to be recorded in the register as a private baptism but I bet lots of these never reached the register. Private baptism , or part baptism as it is sometimes called, would be followed by a service when the child was received into church but if she didn't survive that wouldn't have happened

Anne in Carlisle
13-04-09, 09:42
I have some like this Allan. I have found burials but no baptism. I guess there could be several explanations. Baptism in another parish; baptism and burial very close together and the vicar/clerk forgot to write one down (in this case it would be a good idea the check the Bishops Transcripts); no baptism at all - although the parish record sometimes says "unbaptised child of...."


13-04-09, 09:58
thanks Judith and Anne....I didn`t know that a midwife could babtise a child....Anne,can I ask whether you were confident enough of adding them to your tree??...allan:)

Anne in Carlisle
13-04-09, 10:00
I added them to my tree with all the provisos noted. If a child was buried and the father had a unique name in the parish ..... well, it seems likely but of course not definate.


13-04-09, 10:15
I`m glad you`ve said that because that`s exactly what I have done....cheers....allan;)

13-04-09, 10:40
Just to chime in what others say but to add to the weight of evidence - yes - some families in our parish and them surrounding have way more wills and burials than baptisms for the 17thC and 18thC and the pattern I have spotted in at least 1 of my lines, is that they seem more likely to baptise a boy than a girl. My own grt X 4 grandmother was one of a huge family, the vast majority baptised but she wasn't (predictably it's usualy the one I'm tracing that isn't baptised!) - all we could say for sure for years was, she was PROBABLY x's daughter and y's sibling - til we found a will that referred to her and confirmed for us what we thought all along - eys she was who we had thought!

Small village, one name = sometimes a cousin is a possibility.

Harrys mum
13-04-09, 11:29
I've got one as well. Lived to old age and left a will, but I can't find his baptism anywhere. Of course, he is the direct ancestor as well!!!

Pains, aren't they???

13-04-09, 12:41
Don't forget that by late 1700's that catholics could be baptised in their own catholic churches and there are pockets of the country where these catholic centres are around from the mid 1700's. I am just inputting on to my OH tree some catholic baptisms back to 1760's.

Also many nonconformist records were around the late 1700's so worth trying those.


16-04-09, 10:02
When you do a search on the CPRdb site, if you click on the green circle in the results list, it brings up parish notes, mentioning misordering, gaps in the register, etc.

Maybe Hannah's baptism is in a missing part of the register, although it doesn't appear to show any gaps for that time.
But the parish notes do show that Ralph Oakes was a Churchwarden in 1779. :)

16-04-09, 13:07
When my ancestor became a lieutenant in the navy, he had to provide a proof of age - ie a certified copy of his baptism. The lad on the previous page had been privately baptised and the then incumbent did not enter such information into the register. Public baptism did not take place until he was 14. The current incumbent sought information of the parents and that had to be accepted.

Where vicars simply recorded the services that the church had conducted - and the vicar in the above example cannot have been the only one (this was 1789) - there are bound to be occasional instances of burials without baptisms.

16-04-09, 13:10
Of course it could just be that the person transcribing for the database missed the baptism by mistake, so you might find it if you look at the actual parish register.