Was there any more incentive?

[Ozzie Gert]

for the Irish to go to America, than the English in the 1850s

I have a Lawrence and Sophia Green going in 1853, if i have found the right couple they say they were born in Ireland, though he was born Derby and Sophia born in Somerset.

Lawrences father was born in Ireland though.

Any ideas please

Sylvia

[Richard]

Well there were lots of Irish in America freshly arrived from the famine a few years earlier. Many of them will have blamed the English Landlords and the English Govenment. Perhaps if they lived in a very Irish area, they felt it easier to fit in and be accepted if they put down Irish, especially if they were English born but with Irish roots anyway?

[Ozzie Gert]

Thank you Richard, thats a possibility.

Sylvia

[Guest]

I wondered about that too my Irish lot went there in the late 1800s and he was a farmer

[Olde Crone Holden]

If you were dirt poor and someone offered to pay your fare to the land of endless opportunity and give you some land when you got there, well, you'd be a fool not to go really.

I know nothing about the Irish Workhouse system, but certainly in England, thousands of workhouse inhabitants were "encouraged" to go to America etc, and many notices appeared everywhere by various USA authorities, offering to pay the fare.

America was people-hungry in the 1800s and was scouring the Western world for workers.

OC

[Ozzie Gert]

OC

I found them on the Castle Gardren site, Sophia went over as a gentlemans servant, her husband was a labourer, i was just curios as to why they said they were Irish, they had 2 children born over there and came back to England

Sylvia

[Olde Crone Holden]

Oh, sorry, I've twigged now!

Hum, who knows? Maybe it was a misunderstanding of the question "where are you from?" and for some reason they thought they had to put his father's birth place?

I have numerous daft ancestors who "didn't understand the question" - one deeply thick or maybe nervous woman, when registering her baby, must have been asked

"Father's name?"

She gave the name of her OWN father, not the father of the child. Gave me a nasty turn for a while till I worked out her own father was long dead!

OC

[Ozzie Gert]

Thank you OC, it might be worth trying to find out who the gentleman was, Sophia was servant to, he may have been a wealthy Irishman ??

Sylvia

[Janet]

Many Irish came to England first and there were many reasons why they stopped off. Many visited family for a couple of years, some found conditions were little better than in Ireland so moved on, some could only afford to get to England first and then saved up and moved of to other climes, not just to the USA but Canada and Australia as well. There are probably other reasons but these would be the main ones. My OH has one who came to Liverpool from Wexford and stayed to run a pub for a couple of years and then went to Australia. Unfortunately many who went to the USA lived over there in abysmal poverty, but did not dare say so, but a few like your ancestor saved up to come back again, realising England was not that bad! But why he would say he was from Ireland when born in England is rather puzzling. You are sure you have the correct couple for both events? If his father Lawrence was Irish maybe he was baptised in Ireland so may have thought he was born Ireland?

Val

Being a "farmer" in Ireland in the 1800's usually meant farming a small strip of land the size of a very small back yard of a few feet and being a tenant farmer, not owning acres of ground, which is why most would have gone to the USA.

Janet

[Just Barbara]

For the Irish going to America you might want to read..

[Just Barbara]

hang on.....

http://www.ailf.org/exhibit/ex_irishim.htm

[John_8251]

Could it be possible that they went from England on a smaller boat to Ireland and then sailed over to America? Would it have been easier than an overland trip to eg Liverpool?
When they landed it may have been presumed they came from Ireland or when asked they said they had come from Ireland... which is true.
Just a thought

[Just Barbara]

Emigrants from Ireland to America usually went from Queenstown, (Cobh), which is where the Titanic stopped off at before it crossed the Atlantic, people would have Wakes for the people emigrating as they wouldn't see them again. But I think the emigrants would just get on at liverpool.

[Ozzie Gert]

Thank you all for your input,

John... they left from Liverpool

As Sophia was a gentlemans servant, i presume (i know i shouldn`t) the gentleman paid her passage, would he have also paid for her husband too ?

Sylvia

[Bel]

Have you checked the Ellis Island records?

Ellis Island - FREE Port of New York Passenger Records Search

I recall finding a notation that the fare for one of my grandmother's relatives was paid by her mother.

[Ozzie Gert]

Thank you Bel, they are not listed on there

Sylvia

[Vicky the Viking]

don't know if it helps any, but this is what happened to one of OH's branches.

A couple who married in Ireland in 1851 came over to England with a couple of young kids in the late 1850's; he got work as a coal miner in Lancashire. They had several more kids born in Lancashire including 2 girls who both went to America in the early 1890's - separately - one aged 18 & the other 19.
Both had their passages paid by an aunt (their mother's sister) and although they have correctly put "where from" as the town in Lancashire where they were living, both said they were of Irish nationality. On the 1900 USA census they are English!

I found out the aunt had gone to America a couple of years before mum came to England. As aunt was definitely Irish by whatever definition you use, I wonder if they thought it would look funny if they said they were English.
Of course they could well have thought of themselves as Irish because their parents were (and the nationality of your father is still used in determining your nationality, not your actual place of birth)

I found the girls on the Ellis Island site but of course not everyone went in via New York.

They went from Liverpool but the ships both docked at Queenstown too.

[Janet]

Ellis Island was not open for immigrants to the USA until 1892. Before that many people went to the USA via Canada, especially in the 1840's to 1860's.

Janet