Help reading witness name

[Pipemma]

Can anyone read the name of the second witness on this marriage certificate (surname Baker)? Closest I can come up with is Hepzibah, but there seem to be too many letters and some just don't seem right. Would be very grateful!

[Little Nell]

sorry image is too small for me.

[Roger in Sussex]

Could it be Hephzibah?

[Dubonnet lady]

How about Walter Gibbs
Hephzibah Bates

The Curate is G.A. MacDougell

[failsworthexile]

I agree-too many letters in first name!
Hepnisbyalah Bates?

[Dubonnet lady]

or
Hephysbach

[Mary from Italy]

I agree with Hephzibah.

[Pipemma]

Hephzibah is the best I can come up with too - glad others concur. Thanks!

I'm 99.9% certain the surname is Baker as the bride is Martha Baker and the two other occurrences (bride's name in the cert and in the "signature" followed by her mark) are identical. Now to find out who Hephzibah was. From the censuses and IGI I've worked out that Martha was the daughter of James Baker, born Cornwall, and Sarah Jordan, born Dover, who married in Dover in 1830

[kylejustin]

is there any way you can blow up the witnesses names?
it is very small to see, and i think might start with 'z'.

[Pipemma]

OK, I've tried cropping it out and saving at highest resolution - don't know if there'll be any improvement

My best guess is Hephzabah

[kylejustin]

looks like miller gibbs and hephzabah baker.
any ideas who they are?

[kylejustin]

the name isn't as rare as you think:

Births Mar 1844
BAKER Hepazbah Sarah Bloomsbury 1 59

Jun 1846
Baker Hephzibah Esther Bethnal Green 2 1

Sep 1848
Baker Hep_zibah * Sheppey 5 478

Jun 1849
BAKER Hephzibeh Wisbeach 14 188

Jun 1851
Baker Hepsibah Oundle 15 359

Mar 1852
BAKER Hephzibah Sheppey 2a 564

Jun 1858
Baker Hephzibah St Neots 3B 302

Mar 1860
BAKER Hephsiba N Aylesford 2a 323

Dec 1864
Baker Hephzibah Bradford Yk 9b 104

Jun 1865
BAKER Hephzibah Hackney 1b 406

Sep 1865
BAKER Hephzibah Agnes Mary Kensington 1a 171

Sep 1867
Baker Hephzibah Lewisham 1d 845

Sep 1873
Baker Hephzibah Wisbeach 3b 616

Dec 1877
BAKER Hephzibah Harriet St. Olave 1d 265

Jun 1878
BAKER Hephzibah Stuart Brighton 2b 221

Sep 1882
Baker Hephzibah Theresa Woolwich 1d 1194

Mar 1892
Baker Hephzibah Poplar 1c 682

Dec 1907
BAKER Hephzibah Ellen Cambridge 3b 388
BAKER Hephzibah Kate Blything 4a 1055

[kylejustin]

and there are over two hundred plus variants on the igi, for the name 'haphzabah' in the british isles alone.

and their are 22 with the surname 'baker'

[kylejustin]

here is a link: Hephzibah (WebBible? Encyclopedia) - ChristianAnswers.Net

[Pipemma]

I think the second witness is a William Gibbs? That's what it looks like to me, anyway. No idea who he is, presumably a friend of the groom

The marriage is between James Miles and Martha Baker in Bethnal Green on 21 May 1866. Their eldest child had already been born by the time they married. Martha was born in Dover, christened, according to IGI on 5 September 1841, father James Baker (shoe maker according to the marriage cert) and Sarah Jo(u)rdan. Annoyingly there are 3 Martha Bakers born in Dover in the first half of 1841, one in Q1 and two in Q2. James & Sarah married on 6 July 1830 in Dover (IGI), he was evidently born ca. 1807 or ca. 1810 (depending whether you go by IGI or the census) in Cornwall. IGI has a Sarah Jordan christened in Guston, Kent (a suburb of Dover) on 12 Nov 1809, daughter of Thomas and Susanna Jordan and that's as far as I've found that line. There are 3 possible James Bakers born in Cornwall, one in Nov 1806, Week St Mary, another in Feb 1807 in Paul (near Penzance) and yet another in Feb 1810 in Jacobstow (not a million miles from Week St Mary).

I'm pretty certain I've found the census entries for James and Sarah with young Martha:

1851: Class: HO107; Piece: 1584; Folio: 25; Page: 43
Here are James and Sarah in 1861: RG9; Piece: 392; Folio: 36; Page: 24
And here in 1841, when they have an older son: HO107; Piece 465; Book: 12; Civil Parish: Charlton; County: Kent; Enumeration District: 2; Folio: 27; Page: 11; Line: 12
Joseph, the son, appears as a visitor in 1851:HO107; Piece: 1584; Folio: 24; Page: 41

So it would appear that Hephzibah is not a sibling - but presumably related to Martha?

[kylejustin]

i would say cousin, but could be a biological aunt or grandmother. maybe a married in aunt?

you need to find her on a census.

[kylejustin]

there are two hephzibah baker's in 1861.

one in middlesex, b.middlesex age 35, and one in and b. northamptonshire, age 9

[Pipemma]

I think it's unlikely a 14-year-old from Northants would have witnessed a marriage in Bethnal Green 5 years later so I think that one can be ruled out. I found a couple of Hephzibah Bakers in 1881, one married to an Edward, which doesn't seem to fit in... I also wondered if Joseph had married a Hephzibah but can't find anything

[kylejustin]

did you check out the one in middlesex? you could find the marriage on freebmd, and get the maiden name. you could also see if the husband has a link to your family.

by the way, there have been child witnesses at weddings. but unless you traced her family, you wouldn't know if she was related.

[Pipemma]

The one in Middx looks promising - the husband John was born in Dover. I was wondering how a Cornishman ended up marrying a woman from Dover, but if his family moved up to Dover and then had more children (various censuses also have a Richard Baker born Dover), that could make sense - and could also explain how James pob is variously given as Cornwall or Dover

John & Hephzibah also appear in 1891