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  • a huge brick wall

    hello, i have a massive brick wall. i was hoping someone could help a little.

    Andrew Palmer age 19, otp, and Margaret Baty 25, spinster of Arthuret, married by licence 15/11/1789 at Bowness on Solway, cumberland.
    He signed, she marked, witnesses John Gaddes, Jas. Sharp.

    andrew was born around 1770. he died on 13 jan 1841, at greysouthen, cumberland. informant was peter peel, son in law.

    margaret was born around 1764. she died on 21 July 1837, at Greysouthen, Cumberland. Informant was Matthew Faulder, Blacksmith of Brigham.

    we have andrew's will and it only mentions his children and grandchildren.
    the parish register's have been checked for bowness upon solway and arthuret, and there has been nothing substantial.

    there are only three palmer marriages at bowness in the 18th century.
    thomas to elizabeth lawson in 1735
    andrew to margaret
    and margaret to thomas ward in 1792.

    i think margaret and andrew could be siblings and thomas their grandfather.

    margaret and andrew had five children:

    jane- b. 5 may 1791, holme cultram. m. francis wilkinson

    john-b. 23 apr 1793, " m. ellen shearman, and emmigrated to australia. im descended from this marriage.

    isabella- b.28 may 1795, " m. twice, once to ? melvin, and second to ? peel.

    william- b. 23 apr 1797, " i don't have a death for either william, and he was never mentioned in the will of andrew.

    and william- b.4 oct 1799 "

    has anyone got any idea's to get further with this family?

  • #2
    Have you got the names of the witnesses etc from the Margaret Palmer / Thomas Ward marriage? Maybe Andrew was a witness.
    KiteRunner

    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't have knowledge of the local records or the geography, so these points are general.
      • Geography - is Bowness on a river? Where might families travel from?
      • Marriage by licence - were the families rich, was it a shot-gun wedding, or were they non-conformists?
      • Wills - if Andrew left one, was he self made, or are there others to be found?
      • Occupation - would he have moved for work or did he own a farm?
      I would look for county wide records for Palmer references, to see if there are concentrations of the surname elsewhere. I would look at the church history, to see if there might have been daughter churches used or if there was a strong non-con or catholic tradition. I would also check for local history, to give you a feel for the place and whether people were rooted there, or constantly on the move.
      Phoenix - with charred feathers
      Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

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      • #4
        that's a good idea kite. unfortunately, most of the info was collected by a cousin in recent years, and i did mention to this cousin about the palmer marriage, i don't know if he's seen it. also, the original registers have dissapeared, so i wonder if this marriage was taken from a bishop transcript?

        phoenix- it says marriage by liscence, but i don't know if it still exists. we know nothing of this family, except pretty much what i've told you.
        Last edited by kylejustin; 27-03-09, 13:48.

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        • #5
          Bowness is in the middle of nowhere but sits on the Solway Firth opposite Annan in Scotland. You could get more or less anywhere in a sea-going boat.
          Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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          • #6
            he was a farmer and had under 200 pounds. he left small amounts to grandchildren, and the land to jane.

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            • #7
              All these places are in North Cumbria (sorry Cumberland!) Is it possible some of them came from Scotland? - a whole new ball game of research of which I know nothing.

              Arthuret (the parish church for Longtown) is nearest the Scottish border. It is not immediately close to Bowness on Solway, although as UJ says the most likely route from Scotland to Bowness would be by boat, about 1 mile. It is the narrowest bit of the estuary.

              Anne

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              • #8
                i have considered they were from scotland, especially bearing in mind "of this parish" and "of" doesn't necesarily mean they were born there. they could have grown up there or just been living where they were from for a few years.

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                • #9
                  I wouldn't be surprised if they were non-conformists, because there seem to have been lots up there.
                  KiteRunner

                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    phoenix- it says marriage by liscence, but i don't know if it still exists. we know nothing of this family, except pretty much what i've told you.[/QUOTE]

                    The Bonds and Allegations-which is the official record of the grant of Licence-will either be held at Lancashire Record Office or Carlisle Record Office.
                    I would give them a ring and see if they can help in tracing the licence details.

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                    • #11
                      it's starting to sound like kite.

                      holcan, that's a marvellous idea. but if the original register's havn't survived and the marriage details have come from a transcript, how would the liscence survive?

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                      • #12
                        The licence allegation or bond wouldn't have been stored with the parish registers, so they could still survive.
                        KiteRunner

                        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          great!! does anyone have an email address for the records office?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Greysouthen is over 50 km. south of Bowness, midway between Cockermouth and Workington. It looks to me as though they could have been tenant farmers who moved around. If you Google Carlisle and select the Google map it will give you some idea of the distance. Even now the roads are indirect, and most of them would not have existed when these people were alive.
                            Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                            • #15
                              i did search for arthuret, bowness, and holme cultram on the maps, but forgot cockermouth district. they did move a bit, but it's difficut finding anything.

                              my cousin thinks they're his biggest brick wall just to make life difficult.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
                                great!! does anyone have an email address for the records office?
                                E Mails as follows
                                Lancashire RO-- record.office@ed.lancscc.gov.uk
                                Carlisle RO-- carlisle.record.office@cumbriacc.gov.uk

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                                • #17
                                  thankyou, i'll give carlisle a shout first.

                                  i've sent an email to carlisle, now i hope it doesn't bounce back!!
                                  Last edited by kylejustin; 27-03-09, 14:52.

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                                  • #18
                                    Did you see I just put a photo of Arthuret church on the Wiki?
                                    I'll get over to Bowness when I can - hopefully soon now I know it might be of use to you! Just ask if you want any other photos of the area - I could probably manage them.

                                    Anne
                                    Last edited by Anne in Carlisle; 27-03-09, 15:12.

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                                    • #19
                                      that's awesome ann!! *races off to look, leaving everyone in the dust*

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
                                        that's awesome ann!! *races off to look, leaving everyone in the dust*
                                        Don't push Ann into the Solway - we may never see her again. :D:D
                                        Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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