New French Records on Ancestry

[Sue from Southend]

I've just been looking at the New Records on Ancestry and there's a huge amount of French archives gone on in the last couple of days (makes the LMA look paltry:()

You need a Worldwide membership to access it and be able to read French :o but there must be stuff in there for people with Huguenot ancestors... It's just a case of finding it!

If I knew where my Huguenot ancestors came from it would help:(

[margaretmarch]

I've just been looking at the New Records on Ancestry and there's a huge amount of French archives gone on in the last couple of days (makes the LMA look paltry:()

You need a Worldwide membership to access it and be able to read French :o but there must be stuff in there for people with Huguenot ancestors... It's just a case of finding it!

If I knew where my Huguenot ancestors came from it would help:(

Hi Sue,
Thanks for highlighting this - I have Huguenot ancestors but I know where they came from but it doesn't help much!
I have some disks form the Huguenot Society with BMD registers on them if I can help at all with any look ups. Mostly London churches.
Margaret

[Sue from Southend]

Thanks for the offer Margaret.

I have one disk from the Huguenot Society - it's CD Rom 7. I've found a few possibles but nothing conclusive.

My main lead is Susanna Gobert b abt 1737, d 1780 Spitalfields. She married an Irishman, James Dawes in Christchurch, Spitalfields in 1765. The problem is that the Gobert name can be transcribed several ways Goubert, Gobart etc and Susanna is fairly common....

My mother always insisted that another line from her tree was Huguenot too, the Piercy's - weavers from Spitalfields. Susanna's daughter married into this family but I've not found any other French link yet.

It's one of those lines that I look at occasionally and think "no I can't get my head round that" and move on, :D

[margaretmarch]

I'll have a look for Susanna for you.
My frustration is that I know the name of my 6xgreat grandfather's uncle (Rev Charles Edward de Coetlogon) on his maternal side which is French and have found tons about his family but so far have not found the woman who links me directly to this line grr!
Margaret

[Sue from Southend]

I'll have a look for Susanna for you.
My frustration is that I know the name of my 6xgreat grandfather's uncle (Rev Charles Edward de Coetlogon) on his maternal side which is French and have found tons about his family but so far have not found the woman who links me directly to this line grr!
Margaret

Now there's name to mistranscribe if ever I saw one!!!

Thanks Margaret

[Richard]

Hello Sue

I used to do a thread over at GR doing Huguenot look ups.

I've had a look today at the Gouberts/Gobert/Goubards in the records I have

The name first appears in the 1560's in the Anglican churches of West London, Westminster and theres a branch using Anglican churches in that area from then until early 1700's. They probably came over with the first wave of refugees at time of St Bartholomews Massacre, during Elizabeths reign.

However think they are in all probability a bit of 'red herring' for your branch. There's a second much larger lot of Goubard/Gouberts that by the looks of it came over with the main wave in the 1680's following the revocation of the Nantes Edit by Louis XIV and the dragoons. Looking at baptsism alone they first appear in the main Threadneedle street Church in 1685, and then also use some of the smaller chapels in and around Spitalfields in the early decades of the 1700's. The last baptism for them in the French chapels dates from 1738. They then begin using the Anglican chapels instead, their first baptism there, in East London, occuring five years later at St Dunstans Stepney, 1743 (which was a Susanna). There are one or two baptisms in Christchurch, Spitalfields and St Matthews Bethnal Green over the next 50 years, but by far the large bulk of their baptisms occur at St Leonards, Shoreditch, (in all 50 baptisms to them between 1750-1850 on the IGI). This suggests they lived in and around that church.

Looking at all the baptisms in both the French and Anglican churches on IGI, there are only two baptisms for a Susanna that could possibly be the one you are looking for:

SUSANNE GOUBARD -
Female Christening: 11 OCT 1730 Threadneedle Street French Huguenot, London, London, England

(From the original "Susanne Goubard daughter of Pierre Goubard and Susanne Wilbeau. Godfather. Jaques Wilbeau. Godmother.Esther Wilbeau. Born 25 Sept. Baptised 11 Oct 1730")

or

SUSANNA MARY GOUBARD
Female Christening: 06 FEB 1743 Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London, England


In addition I've checked through the registers of the Huguenot churches in East london manually from 1735-40 to make sure the IGI havn't missed her or its mistranscibed, and am satisfied there isn't a baptism for her there.

There is a Susanne Robert baptised feb 1737 at Threadneedle Street to Francois Robert and Mary Duval. I suppose it's possible the G has been mistaken for R when the society transcribed from the original registers...but seems a long shot.

How did you come about the date of circa 1737 for her birth? Is it reliable?

Regards

Richard

[Richard]

Actually looking at that Francois Robert and Mary Duvall had several other children baptised too. Do not think that can be a transcription error so does look more likely yours would be the 1730 or 1743 Susanne.

[Elizabeth Herts]

Richard or Margaret,

There is a possibility that OH's ancestor came from a Huguenot family.

Her name was Ann Caveler and she was born c. 1755 as she died in 1817 aged 61. If her family were involved in the silk industry it would make good sense. She married and lived in Hatfield Hertfordshire, but could well have been born in London.

Could someone please check for me - I expect the spelling of the surname varies.


Edit: One of the witnesses at the marriage was Henry Caveler. I don't know whether this is her father or brother or other!

[Richard]

Hi Elizabeth

I don't know whether this is generally known, but the IGI has transcribed all the Huguenot societies London church registers, (though I'm told the society was and remain very unhappy about the way they went about doing so!) That said it is useful because if she was baptised in one of the French churches in London it will come up there on search . If she does not come up on IGI she wont have a baptism in the London French churches.

I can still do a blanket search for the surname through the charity records etc, though if you'd like? (though off out today in 5 minutes, will look when I'm back) But again these are all London so if no baptism in London we might be hoping a bit!

Regards

Richard

[Sue from Southend]

Thanks for that Richard.

Those are the two baptisms that I found and I think I probably picked a date between the two :o until I found something more conclusive one way or the other :D

I've no other clues to go on to find out which Susanna she is and I really don't know where to go next with this (I've been stuck at this point for a couple of years now). I suppose it's possible that Pierre and Francis/ois are brothers and Susanna is a family name but I'm not sure how that helps either!

I don't suppose you noticed any Piercy's or corruption of that name in your trawl through the records, did you? My mother was adamant that they were Huguenot especially when there used to be a French tennis player named Mary Piercy! I'm not convinced myself, the story may just refer back to the Gobert/Goubard connection but they were all weavers....

Any way thanks again for looking


Edit: I've just had another look and since I last looked at Susanna in any depth I've found out more about her husband and have confirmed his birth as c1745 which makes me tend towards the 1743 birth for Susanna...

[Elizabeth Herts]

Richard, she isn't on the IGI but it was there I could see that a lot of people with similar surnames were baptised in the Huguenot church.

For Hatfield I have Ann, Henry, Elizabeth marrying in the 1770s and 1780s and later Martha Caviller marrying in 1809.

If you do have time to do a quick search for the surname I'd be grateful. I can't find them in Herts before the 1770s. Thanks so much.

[Richard]

Hello Sue,

Personally I'd think your right too the 1843 looks the more likely, she'd be 22 at marriage, if it were the other she would be slighlty on the old side at 35 , though by no means impossible she married then, so I can see the problem. May be able to find out by closer look at records how, or if, the two Susannes were related. There is lots of other info on the family charity records, hospital records etc.

Will likewise have a look for the Piercys and the Cavillers for you Elizabeth, as I do so, though afraid wont be today as bit busy (nieces birthday!). Will hopefully have a crack at it tommorow or during the week if thats ok.

Regards

Richard

[Elizabeth Herts]

Richard, any time will do, there's no rush. Any help is appreciated. Enjoy your niece's birthday.

[Sue from Southend]

Like wise Richard! There's no rush - as I said I've been sitting looking at this for a couple years now and the records aren't going anywhere are they?

BTW found a sort of one name study of Gobert/Goubard etc but he only looks at the French churches. But some other interesting stuff
gaubert family history 03 england 02

Enjoy the celebrations and your weekend

[Richard]

Hello Sue apologies for delay have been working on this all past week, in the evenings and mornings whenever I had a bit of spare time. I have had a good go at sorting out all the Goubards/Goberts of East London (not easy!) and think I have it more or less cracked. Bit long winded, but hopefully will clarify the findings on the website you have found, plus I was also able to add on this a fair bit with records they don't seem to have had acess to, and I noticed a few small, but significant, errors and ommisions on their work.

Ok here goes...

First in the East End Spitalfields area seems to be a Jean/John Gobert. He arrived 1681, the first year of the renewed persecutions of the Protestants in France, when Louis XIV ordered Dragonnades be billeted to Protestants homes, where they looted, raped and murdered. Apart from 1685, with the full revocation of their civil rights, this year saw the largest influx of Huguenot refugees to England.

Jean was denised on 8 March 1681, and gave his tesmoignage of membership at Threadneedle Street on 13 April 1681. (The man who has made the website missed that).

He and his wife Anne Sauray had two children baptised there Anne in 1685, and Jean 1687. He also had a daughter Mercy, born in London circa 1863, accepted as a full member there aged 13, in the xmas day ceremony of 1695.

He is on the charity records of the French committe published in 1725 and 1728. On both occasions he recieved his payments from the Wheeler Street Chapel, suggesting he lived in and around that area of Spitalfields. The latter record also gives the information he was a native of Boulonnais, a coastal area of France, around Calais, and that he was 75, so born there circa 1650.

The second by the name was a Jacques/James Goubert. He was accepted as a full member of the Threadneedle Church August 1682, vouched for by two existing members. He also went through the denisation process, though a little later, in 1687. He too appears on the charity records published 1725,1727 and 1728. Again he got his payments from the Wheeler Street Chapel, first given payments for care outside of hospital, then inside hospital from 18 April 1724-25 Dec 1725. The Hospital then took care of his arrangements, until he died in December 1727, and the French committe paid for the funeral.

Both Jean and Jacques appear in the 1680's minutes of Threadneedle Street, requesting south side pews in the church. However the charity records make it clear Jacques was of Dieppe, Normandy not Boullounais like Jean, and their surnames are spelt differently on that same record, so seems unlikely they are related. Incidentelly several women join the church in the 1690's and 1700's, young ladies and two older spinsters Catherine and Francoise, also of Dieppe who may well be relatives, sisters, aunts etc, of Jacques following him over.


The next by the name was a Jonas Goubard and his wife Deborah, they arrived in London in 1689 joining the Threadneedle Church in that year with a testimony from the Huguenot Church in Canterbury. They had one child Esther baptised there in 1691, but then leave as they next have a baptism there in 1701 ( again a daughter Esther) and officially rejoin the church in their summer ceremony the next year with a testimony from the Huguenot church of Dublin, suggesting they'd been in Ireland (The website online has that wrong and has quoted Canterbury as the source of their testimony in both instance).

continued....

[Richard]

The next batch of couples use the same small chapels in and around Spitalfields rather than the main church of Threadneedle and never seem to have joined the main church there.

All seem to be linked and come as refugees from "St ystache, forest of Normandy" (Saint-Eustache-la-Forêt, just south of bolbec, a very huguenot town).

They are


Jean Gobert and Anne

Children:
Suzanne 1701 La Patente, Spitalfields
Jean 1703 La Patente, Spitalfields
Ester 1706 Crispin Street, Spitalfields
Susanne 1708 Crispin Street, Spitalfields


Pierre Gobert and Elizabeth Lagache

Catherine Elizabeth 1701 La Patente, Spitalfields
Elizabeth 1703 La Patente, Spitalfields
Jacques 1705 La Patente, Spitalfields


Nicolas Gobert and Madeline Paul

A daughter (unamed) 1709 Crispin Street, Spitalfields
Jean 1710 Crispin Street, Spitalfields
Marie Madeline 1713 Wheeler Street, Spitalfields
Pierre 1715 Wheeler Street, Spitalfields
Anne 1718 Wheeler Street, Spitalfields
Catherine 1721 Wheeler Street, Spitalfields
Nicolas 1725 Wheeler Street, Spitalfields
Pierre 1728 Wheeler Street, Spitalfields
Nicolas 1731 Wheeler Street, Spitalfields
Esther 1733 Wheeler Street, Spitalfields

I believe these three are brothers they give adresses within a few streets of eachother in and around Shoreditch and Bethnal Green, stand as god parents to each others children, and the same names of people outside the families Huet, Lamy, Fosse reappear as witnesses and godparents for all three families. Pierre died and his wife Elizabeth remarried in 1709. I also noticed the chap who made the website has Suzanne born 1708 her testimony on reaching adulthood as coming from Catherine Goubert of Dieppe, but thats another mistake, he has misread it from the entry above. This family group don't seem linked in any way to that group from Dieppe. Incidently that Susanne appears on many of the later charity records as she suffered from a form of "squint", in which one or both eyes turns inward. This obviously was so severe it left her unable to work and she was supported by the local charites, adress given as Quaker Street. Nicolas and his family also appear in the charity records of the 1720's and 1730's living in Webb Square Alley. His wifes age in 1740 is 52, so I'd guess he was born around 1685-90 too. Also there is a marriage for a Judith Gobert in 1713, also of St. Eustache in Normandy, described as the daughter of the late Jean GAUBERT & the late Ester Andrieu. She may well be sister of the three brothers above.


There is then two more couples, both using the main church at Threadneedle Street for their baptisms, who don't seem obviously linked to the family above, and probably are two most significant to you:

Jean Goubard and Marie Barbier (Married 1709 St Dunstans, Stepney)

Pierre 1710
Abraham 1716
Francois 1720
Marie Jeanne 1721
Estienne 1723


Pierre Goubard and Susanne Wilbeau (Married 1729 the Fleet, London)

Susanne 1730
Marie Madelaine 1738


Since Jean and Pierre are using the main church at Threadneedle Street, but seem never to have 'joined', and married in Anglican churches, I'd guess they are not fresh first generation refugees. If I had to guess I'd say Pierre is actually the son of the first, Jean, (baptised in 1710) and Jean himself may well be the son born to the original Jean Goubard, of Boullonois, Calais, mentioned at the outset, who arrived 1681 and had a Jean Goubard baptised at Threadneedle Street 1687. He'd be just right age for a 1709 marriage.

Francois/Francis born 1720, is the only one who gave a Tesmoignage and was accepted as a full member of the church of Threadneedle Street, aged 19 on 27 June 1739. He was vouched for by a Pierre Barbier, presumably uncle or grandfather. I'd say he is significant to you as the Susanne Mary Goubard, the first Goubard baptised outside the French churches of East London, in 1743, was the daughter of a Francis Goubard. He is the only Francis Goubard baptised in the French East End churches and just right age to be the father. Also that is the only Goubard baptism for whole of 1700's in St Dunstans, and Francois/Francis's parents were married there which may then be significant.

[Richard]

Hope that helps somewhat, have not had a chance yet to check the other surname, or do your look up Elizabeth, apologies to you both, but hopefully will be able to over next week coming.

Richard

[Richard]

Just to add, had a look to see if I could find any info on Jean Goubard/Gobert on French websites before coming to England . Couldn't, but did find some info on the family from St Eustache using the small chapels in Spitalfields. Will add it here, in case in future they do turn out to be related . Looks like they are brothers after all.

Data pages

Jean Goubert and Esther Andrieu married 26 July 1665 Huguenot chapel Lintot, Normandy

Two sons both born St Eustache la Forêt, Normandy

Jean Goubert b.July 1666
Pierre Goubert b.April 1670

Jean then widowed and remarried to Anne Lamy 1679 Huguenot chapel Lintot, Normandy

One son to Jean and Anne also born St Eustache la Forêt, Normandy

Nicolas Goubert b.March 1681

[Sue from Southend]

Wow! I'm speechless Richard. You must have worked really hard on this and it really is very much appreciated. I'm going to have to print off a copy and sit and try digest all the information.

I don't know where you are Richard but if you're ever this way - I owe you drink at least:D

[Sue from Southend]

Richard - I've studied your masterpiece and I think I understand Susanna's possible lineage . Can I just check that I'm on the same wavelength as you, please?

Susanna Mary Gobert/Goubard b 1743 daughter of Francois Goubard and Catherine.

Pierre Goubard b 1710 } Sons of Jean Goubard
Francois Goubard b 1720} and Marie Barbier m 1709

Jean Goubard b1687 son of Jean Gobert/Goubard b abt 1681 Boulonnais Region, France and his wife Anne Sauray

Thanks again for everything