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  • Widower but no death anywhere

    My gt grandfather married my gt grandmother 9 years after my grandmother was born and they had many children during this period and after. He states on the wedding certificate that he was a widow, but from the date of his first marriage until the date of his second no one can find a death notice anywhere. My question is, he would have had to give evidence of his first wife's death at his second marriage, how can I find this information now? They are all living together on the 1911 census but I still cannot find a trace of his first wife.

    Chris Stephens

  • #2
    Perhaps it was a matter of having her declared dead after 7 years? I haven't fully investigated that procedure - but I ought to do so, because my grandmother must have done that in order to marry again (as she did to a very respectable - and good - man). My grandfather had left and not come back (actually gone to Canada).

    Christine
    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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    • #3
      Hi Chris, and welcome to FTF.

      No, he wouldn't have had to prove his wife's death when he remarried. As a result, bigamy was fairly common, as divorce was hard to get, and expensive.

      However, it may just be that the first wife's name has been mistranscribed. If you want to post their names here, we can have a look for her (don't post the names of anyone who may still be alive, though).

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      • #4
        Or could she have died in another country?
        KiteRunner

        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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        • #5
          Widower but no death anywhere

          Her name was Ellen Beatrice Thorpe before she married in 1902 Isle of Wight to my gt grandfather Jesse James Colenutt. I cannot find her birth (might have just been Ellen Thorpe registered) and have never found her death. The Isle of Wight Registry stated that he should have proved his wife was dead in 1916 when he married my gt Grandmother on the Island. Not sure how I would find the information held that he was indeed a widower at the time of his 2nd marriage. Or, as the previous thread states, having to wait 7 or so years before it can be thought that the person was dead.

          I have searched thoroughly the deaths on Ancestry index for all the years between 1902 and 1916 and never found (like other searches for this ancestor) a death.

          Chris

          Comment


          • #6
            Was his second wife Ethel Edna?

            He's already with her in 1911

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            • #7
              These are the names in the 1911 household:

              Ethel Edna Colenutt 25
              Jesse Ethel Colenutt 3
              Jesse James Colenutt 36
              Percy James Colenutt 8mths

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              • #8
                Both those children have mother's maiden name Chapman (IOW BMD site). There's another child born in 1914 also with mmn Chapman.

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                • #9
                  Percy was registered with mother´s maiden name of Chapman, which I think was Jesse´s second wife.

                  Merry is ahead of me, as usual!
                  Elaine







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                  • #10
                    Some possibles:

                    Births Jun 1877
                    THORP Ellen Beatrice Thame 3a 653

                    Births Dec 1880
                    THORPE Beatrice Ellen Winchester 2c 113

                    Births Sep 1883
                    Thorpe Beatrice Ellen Wellington.Sh 6a 729

                    Births Dec 1884
                    THORPE Beatrice Ellen Brighton 2b 219


                    Births Dec 1885
                    THORP Beatrice Ellen Hackney 1b 513

                    Do you have the 1st marriage certificate? (Have you her father's details?)
                    Last edited by Merry Monty Montgomery; 01-04-09, 21:50.

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                    • #11
                      My great grandmother married as a "widow" just four years after her husband and four children migrated to Australia (1914). He was alive and well and remarried in Australia after her death in 1923. Divorce was very expensive difficult to obtain and many people just separated and remarried. Have you looked for first wife's death after his remarriage ?


                      Also HIS father's death (my gg grandfather) registration never made it to the GRO indexes. I only found it by burial records and then asked the local RO for their reference, which they happily supplied.

                      Diane
                      Diane
                      Sydney Australia
                      Avatar: Reuben Edward Page and Lilly Mary Anne Dawson

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                      • #12
                        Hi
                        It might be worth checking somewhere else other than Ancestry. It may have improved in the last 12 months, but last year I spent ages looking for various marriages and deaths, particularly in the 1900's, with no success. I then noticed somewhere on the site a list detailing the coverage they have of BMD, it wasn't complete by a long stretch. I registered with Findmypast and found them all straight away.
                        Regards
                        Margaret

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Yorkshire Lass View Post
                          Hi
                          It might be worth checking somewhere else other than Ancestry. It may have improved in the last 12 months, but last year I spent ages looking for various marriages and deaths, particularly in the 1900's, with no success. I then noticed somewhere on the site a list detailing the coverage they have of BMD, it wasn't complete by a long stretch. I registered with Findmypast and found them all straight away.
                          Regards
                          Margaret
                          Welcome to FTF, Margaret!

                          The FreeBMD site has charts showing the coverage by category, so you can see what's available at any stage. They, also, have GRO index images. Ancestry's earlier transcriptions are using the FreeBMD database, updated slightly behind the actual Freebmd updates.

                          Then Ancestry has images for the later periods - they are now indexed by first/last name (much the same as FMP - though I'm not sure whether they've resolved the problem of added-names-out-of-alpha-order, which tended to generate no-result messages because the result was bypassed by the late entry). And they also have the BMD records which are non-image-based for 1984-2005.

                          Christine
                          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It is possible, if the first marriage failed from the outset, that Ellen herself remarried bigamously or took another man's name. In which case, her death may have been under a different surname.
                            Phoenix - with charred feathers
                            Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

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                            • #15
                              do you have ellen's marriage to your great grandfather, or her on a census?

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