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Totally confused.

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  • Totally confused.

    1911 census has my g.grandparents William Henry and Cecilia Millbank at No 10 Wickham Street Lambeth. Also in the household is William aged 7years, born Lambeth, grandson.
    This in itself was a bit of a shock as I did not think my grandparents had any children before marriage, they married 1906.
    From a hazy memory told to me by my mother, she said her brother "Bill" took his mothers surname and that his grandparents brought him up. I have no idea if she knew whether he was born before her parents marriage or not.
    So out of curiosity I thought I would get Williams birth cert. I selected what I thought was the right one, William Henry Millbank born Lambeth 1904.
    Well it arrived this morning and I am totally confused.

    William Henry born 25th September, 1904, the son of William Henry Millbank and Ada Mary Ann formerly Marshall.

    I cannot find a Millbank/Marshall marriage. The only William Henry Millbank in the Lambeth area I can find in 1911 is my g.grandfather. So did W H father a child and pass him off as their grandson, or was my grandma his mother and passed off as someone elses child.

    I'd love some fresh input.
    Thanks.

  • #2
    This might be Ada:

    Births Sep 1881
    Marshall Ada Mary A Lambeth 1d 353

    Comment


    • #3
      I saw that one Mary and think I found them in 1891 but nothing leaps out at me.

      Comment


      • #4
        Does the occupation of William Henry in the census match those of the child's father on the certificate?

        Comment


        • #5
          What's the address for the birth?

          It's a long shot, but possibly another relative is living there in 1901/11 and might at least confirm ......well.....something!

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm confused too - was Bill's mother the daughter of William Henry and Cecilia (and if so, was her name Ada Mary Ann or not?), or was Bill's father their son?
            KiteRunner

            Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
            (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

            Comment


            • #7
              The occupation of W H on the birth cert if flower seller

              My g.grandfather was either described as a telephone wireman or telephone labourer.

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              • #8
                There is an Ada Mary A Marshall marriage Jun 1903 Southwark, but it looks as if she married either John Cameron or James Kirby (the other one married Emily Eleanor Marsh).
                KiteRunner

                Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by KiteRunner View Post
                  I'm confused too - was Bill's mother the daughter of William Henry and Cecilia (and if so, was her name Ada Mary Ann or not?), or was Bill's father their son?
                  I thought he was the son of William and Cecilias daughter Eliza Jane Millbank and Herbert Richardson who married 1906. When I first saw the family in the 1911 and saw he was born before marriage, my immediate thought was, was that Eliza had had a child by some one else and the grandparents were bringing him up.
                  I only got the birth cert to see if it listed who Williams father was, out of curiosity.

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                  • #10
                    Did William and Cecilia have a son called William who could be the father of the child, then?
                    KiteRunner

                    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KiteRunner View Post
                      There is an Ada Mary A Marshall marriage Jun 1903 Southwark, but it looks as if she married either John Cameron or James Kirby (the other one married Emily Eleanor Marsh).
                      I saw that too and was trying to match either up in 1911, trying your tip from yesterday but couldn't come up with anything.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KiteRunner View Post
                        Did William and Cecilia have a son called William who could be the father of the child, then?

                        As far as I can ascertain they only had two living sons, John 1880 and Charles 1882.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          "Also in the household is William aged 7years, born Lambeth, grandson.
                          ...........................
                          William Henry born 25th September, 1904, the son of William Henry Millbank and Ada Mary Ann formerly Marshall."


                          The cert you have is for a child who would only have been aged 6 when the 1911 census was taken so perhaps you have the wrong cert.

                          Alternatively could William Henry the child's father have died pre 1911, or be listed as just William with no middle name or initial, or be in the army and serving overseas. No that doesn't fit with "Bill" being your mum's brother and taking his mother's name - which I guess means he ought to be son of a Millbank daughter?
                          Judith passed away in October 2018

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Who was the informant on the birth certificate, and what address(es) does it give on it, please?
                            KiteRunner

                            Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                            (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JudithM View Post
                              "Also in the household is William aged 7years, born Lambeth, grandson.
                              ...........................
                              William Henry born 25th September, 1904, the son of William Henry Millbank and Ada Mary Ann formerly Marshall."


                              The cert you have is for a child who would only have been aged 6 when the 1911 census was taken so perhaps you have the wrong cert.

                              Alternatively could William Henry the child's father have died pre 1911, or be listed as just William with no middle name or initial, or be in the army and serving overseas. No that doesn't fit with "Bill" being your mum's brother and taking his mother's name - which I guess means he ought to be son of a Millbank daughter?


                              I couldn't find any other William Millbanks of around the right time, I wouldn't think he was born anywhere else other than the Lambeth area as this is where the family stayed the whole of their lives.


                              As for being mums brother, this might be what she was lead to believe. I shall have to search the death indexes and see if he died after 1969 and hope it lists his birth date (no idea when he died) and as far as I know I never met him.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by KiteRunner View Post
                                Who was the informant on the birth certificate, and what address(es) does it give on it, please?

                                Informant was A.A. Millbank mother and the address was 5 Distin Street, Lollard Street, Lambeth

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  It seems most likely to me that Ada Mary Ann Marshall married either John Cameron or James Kirby and then either they split up or he died, then she had a son by William Henry Millbank and although she wasn't actually married to him, she pretended to be when she registered the birth. If this is the same child who is with your g-grandparents on the 1911 census and they didn't have a son William Henry, then it suggests that your g-grandfather was the boy's father.

                                  But I could be adding two and two together and making five here!
                                  KiteRunner

                                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by KiteRunner View Post
                                    It seems most likely to me that Ada Mary Ann Marshall married either John Cameron or James Kirby and then either they split up or he died, then she had a son by William Henry Millbank and although she wasn't actually married to him, she pretended to be when she registered the birth. If this is the same child who is with your g-grandparents on the 1911 census and they didn't have a son William Henry, then it suggests that your g-grandfather was the boy's father.

                                    But I could be adding two and two together and making five here!

                                    But its a very likely scenario.
                                    If this was the case, g.grandma Cecilia must have been a very patient woman.
                                    Theres probably no one left alive who would know.

                                    Last edited by SuffolkSue; 19-03-09, 15:23.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      It's a shame that none of the other people sharing the page number for that Ada Mary Ann Marshall marriage have unusual names, isn't it?
                                      KiteRunner

                                      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by KiteRunner View Post
                                        It's a shame that none of the other people sharing the page number for that Ada Mary Ann Marshall marriage have unusual names, isn't it?

                                        Maybe when the 1911 becomes more freely available I might be able to track something down.

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