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Help with deciphering 17th century will

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  • Help with deciphering 17th century will

    I've recently downloaded a will dating from 1652, which is a bit earlier than I'm used to. I'm not doing too badly with deciphering it, but there are a few words I can't make out.

    Can anyone read the first few words in the second line of this extract?



    The sentence begins: "Also I give unto my grandchild Anne P... one..., and all other wills ..." and it's followed by the signatures of the testatrix Isabell Jackson and the witnesses.

  • #2
    Could be way out here, Mary....lol

    Does the second line you have there follow on from the first or is there more on the end of the top line????

    I can see.....

    Much the same as you.

    Anne ???? ??? ????? and all other wills ???, Isabell Jackson, Thomas ??


    I suppose it's Anne's surname you want??lol

    Does the rest of it make sense??? Sometimes if you get the gist, the rest sort of fits in....lol
    Last edited by Harrys mum; 18-03-09, 03:56.

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    • #3
      Mary could the other witness be Thomas Hilton or Thomas Clifton??
      "chasing dead rellies"
      GO STORM

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      • #4
        looks like "anne palmr? one forest?" looks like a 'c' like thomas clifton, could it be house? "and all other wills....." isabell and thomas' signatures.

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        • #5
          I think it might be "and all other wills void". I thought at first that the beginning of the line said "Anne Pale(?) one house" but it seems unlikely it would just say "one house" without specifying which one!
          KiteRunner

          Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
          (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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          • #6
            Ann Pale our house and all other wills void.

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            • #7
              The second line follows on from the first. The witness is Thomas Clifton, it's the part before that I couldn't read.

              "All other wills void" sounds good - I kept reading it as "all other wills aside".

              It's Anne's surname that's the real problem. The name appears two or three times in the will - I have a couple of possible candidates, but it doesn't look like either of them.

              The part after her name might be "one favor", but I don't think that means anything. I guess "house" is a possibility, but it does seem odd that it isn't specified. And they would normally say "messuage" at that time, I would have thought. There's no other mention of real estate in the will.

              Judging by other words in the will, the squiggle at the beginning of the word could be "ch".

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              • #8
                I guess it must be Anne Pale. That's not the surname I was expecting

                Just starting on Isabell's husband's will, which is much harder to read than hers, and it does look more like Pale in his will. He refers to his daughter Anne Pale? wife of John Pale?, who I will now start looking for.

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                • #9
                  To go back to the question of whether Isabell left Anne a house, would women be entitled to own land in their own right in those days? Isabell was a widow when she died.

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                  • #10
                    Mary........................I have several females being left houses and land in OH's tree, and often left in their own right, with their husbands not having any claim.

                    They often in turn left them to their daughters.

                    One of OH's specified the main house was to be given to the daughter but must stay in the family surname. She was single at the time. She later married and her husband changed his name to hers.



                    PS........off to Tenterfield tomorrow (Thursday) if you've found anything you want looked at.

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                    • #11
                      The "house" isn't an "out house" is it????

                      Don't laugh.....I have several out houses in wills. They seem to be smaller houses on the same property.

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                      • #12
                        Redacted
                        Last edited by Penelope; 18-03-09, 09:56.

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                        • #13
                          Ah, thanks, I had the impression women didn't have many property rights in those days.

                          The "house" isn't an "out house" is it????
                          That's a thought - I wouldn't absolutely rule it out, although it looks more like "one" to me.

                          I don't need anything at Tenterfield at the moment, but thanks very much for asking.

                          Have a good trip
                          Last edited by Mary from Italy; 18-03-09, 09:59.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Penelope View Post
                            Even in the Middle Ages, let alone post Civil War, women could own property and even run a business - if willed to them by their father or husband.
                            OK, thanks for the confirmation.

                            I also agree it says "one House" but think that there's some superscript going on, (small letter above the end of her surname) which may mean a standard abbreviation, on Anne's surname? Could be her name is 'Palot' or something else, but that looks like superscript, to me?
                            That was my original thought, because a squiggle at the end of the word like that can be a standard abbreviation. However, in this will, words that actually do end in an "e" like "give" sometimes end with a similar squiggle.

                            I can't find a suitable John Pale anywhere - so far I've tried the IGI, TNA and Google web/book search.

                            I thought it might be Pavier, because the two families intermarried, but it doesn't really look like it.

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                            • #15
                              Are there any other words in the will that begin with a capital F or H so you can see which matches the letter at the beginning of the word that may or may not be "house"? It looks more like an F to me but I can't think what it would be if so.
                              KiteRunner

                              Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                              (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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                              • #16
                                I would agree that Anne's surname has a letter written small which does indicate that the name should be longer than the Pale suggested by others. though not very clear as to what the name might be.

                                If you look at the word "This" in "This my last will and Testamount" it looks a little like the end of Anne's surname so could Anne's surname be Palis?

                                Janet
                                Last edited by Janet; 18-03-09, 10:33.

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by KiteRunner View Post
                                  Are there any other words in the will that begin with a capital F or H so you can see which matches the letter at the beginning of the word that may or may not be "house"? It looks more like an F to me but I can't think what it would be if so.
                                  Words beginning with F: there's "February", but the F just looks like "ff".

                                  Words beginning with H: there's "Henry", but it's completely different - the first letter looks almost like "Ly".

                                  However, the beginning of the word which might be "house" looks exactly like the beginning of "chattels".

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                                  • #18
                                    Have to do some work now - back later.

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                                    • #19
                                      It's not "chest" is it??? I've a lot with tea chests, but they have "my mahogany tea chest" or "my silver tea chest"....none have just "chest".

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                                      • #20
                                        It couldn't be "Cowe", could it? Meaning "cow"? Did she leave anyone else anything like that? "Void" seems to have an e stuck on the end of it so I suppose other words might too?
                                        KiteRunner

                                        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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