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ColinBroughton
16-03-09, 20:49
A first posting from me and I'm afraid that it's a cry for help please with one of my ancestors Frances Broughton born c1888-89. She shows in 1891 aged 1 and born Northants but living in Manchester and in 1901 as born Kettering and living in Manchester. Everything else about her family including parents, aunts, uncles, older and younger brothers & sisters and location etc. is Manchester. Nowhere else at all only Manchester yet she is from Kettering and she does not show on the BMDs which, of course, is really annoying. You may say adopted but then why Kettering? Her marriage certificate gives James Broughton as her father as expected and as shown on the censuses.

Is there any way of tracing her birth in Kettering or is there anybody living nearby who thinks that they could find her in the local records please? I have tried e-mailing the local records office but did not receive a reply.

Thanking you all in anticipation for any advice received.

Best Wishes from Colin

Elaine ..Spain
16-03-09, 21:03
Have you found her in the 1911 census - if so what does it show as place of birth?

Little Nell
16-03-09, 21:05
No idea Colin. But welcome to FTF.

Maybe Frances' mother was staying with friends or relatives when she was confined. Formal adoption didn't occur until 1927 so if Frances was adopted there wouldn't be any record.

It is suspicious that you can't find her on the BMDs though. (perhaps she was an illegitimate child of her father and was originally registered under her mother's surname)

Boudicca
16-03-09, 21:10
Hi Colin, were the family connected to the shoe industry? Northamptonshire is known for it's shoes? I was born in Kettering myself and live quite close but I don't think I could make it over to Northampton anytime soon, sorry. Coincidentally there is a village called Broughton just outside Kettering. Do you have any other information about her.

Janet in Yorkshire
16-03-09, 21:12
Welcome to FTF Colin.

Have you found birth registrations for all her siblings on FreeBMD?

Jay

ColinBroughton
16-03-09, 21:14
Thank you for the replies.
Her father was a butcher as were a lot of their other relations. As I say there is no other connection with Kettering or anywhere else outside of Manchester other than much earlier ancestors were in Wilmslow Cheshire. 1911 also has her as born Kettering.

ColinBroughton
16-03-09, 21:20
Yes everybody else shows up on BMDs. She has an older brother and sister and three younger sisters two of whom died in infancy. In fact I have well over 300 Broughtons of my family in my tree that were relatively easy to find.

Coincidently I cannot find her mum and dad marrying either!

Boudicca
16-03-09, 21:38
Have you checked the surnames of the Frances born in Kettering around this time? Unfortunately it does seem a popular name but do the surnames ring a bell. Any chance it was mispelt?

Janet in Yorkshire
16-03-09, 21:40
Interesting that all the other children in the family were registered.

Name spelt a different way in the index?

Perhaps she was born whilst the family were away from their normal residence and they didn't realise she should have been registered in the district of birth, rather than that of the usual family residence?
A late registration would have incurred a fine, so they didn't bother?

Kettering is, maybe, not as strange as it seems. There was (and perhaps still is) a direct rail link with Manchester.

Jay

ColinBroughton
16-03-09, 21:43
Yes I've checked and none of the Frances's names ring a bell.
What you said earlier about the shoe industry though Boudicca struck a chord. With her father and some of the family being butchers and possibly having animal hides I suppose there is the possibility of a connection?

Boudicca
16-03-09, 21:56
It's all very odd isn't it but there seems no doubt she was born there. Would it be worth contacting Northants Family History Society? They may be able to help.

ColinBroughton
16-03-09, 22:15
Yes Northants FHS may be an option. Other than that its a long and possibly fruitless journey down to the Records Office in Northampton to look for one birth.

Richard
17-03-09, 01:20
If you do go down the long route, word of warning. When I was researching my Kettering ancestors, it was one of the only places in Northampton where the registers are retained by the church and not deposited at the record office. The Bishops Transcripts were all that were viewable at the Records Office. That was situation a couple of years ago anyway, not sure if that has since changed.

ColinBroughton
17-03-09, 09:21
Thank you for the warning Richard.

Jessbowbag
17-03-09, 09:27
I can see Northants CRO from my house, so please dont make a long journey - I'll happily go for you, only thing is, not quite sure what i'd be able to look for.

Might just be coincedence but were you aware that just outside Kettering is a village called Broughton?

ColinBroughton
17-03-09, 09:58
Thank you for the offer Jess. It should be a straight forward birth of a Frances Broughton in 1888 to 1890 in Kettering but it will not be that easy I am sure.
If Kettering did not forward the indexes (which begs the question, why? did they have the option not to) then does he mean that the only way to find a Kettering birth is through the Bishops Transcripts. Does this also lead to the implication that her mum and dad could have married in Kettering as well and why I cannot find that either? Could I be this lucky as I could grow to be Very Fond of Kettering if all the answers are there in one place.

Olde Crone Holden
17-03-09, 11:33
Colin

A law was passed in the 1980s regarding the preservation of church registers. It requires that the "keeper" of old registers stores them in a controlled humidity and a place safe from predators such as mice and damp etc.

It may be that this Vicar stores them in a safe, which he feels is adequate. There is no law stating that any completed register must be handed to County Archives or Diocesan Archives, it's just that many churches prefer to do this if they do not have adequate storage facilities, and/or recognise the historical value of an old register

It also has to be said that a few Vicars/churches etc feel proprietorial towards their registers and wouldn't let them go anywhere. There have been cases where a departing Vicar has taken the register with him (grrr!).

I have never heard of any court case regarding the unsuitable storage of registers, so I suspect it is a law without teeth, or a law with no one interested in enforcing it!

OC

ColinBroughton
17-03-09, 11:43
Thanks OC so theres no way that the vicar could/would have stopped the birth from being officially registered?

Richard
17-03-09, 12:32
Hi Colin, sorry if I've clouded the issue a bit. I was researching pre 1837 ancestors. You may not find a baptism for her at the records office, but in your case she would still at that late date have been registered.

Olde Crone Holden
17-03-09, 12:59
No, Vicars have no jurisdiction over civil events (i.e. registration) and rarely REFUSE to baptise a child, although she may not have been baptised of course.

OC

Olde Crone Holden
17-03-09, 13:08
Did she have a middle name by any chance? I have found a Fanny M Broughton registered 1891, Cheshire, although that does seem a trifle on the late side!

OC

ColinBroughton
17-03-09, 16:33
I don't know of a middle name but she was on the 1891 census aged 1 and from Northampton so it cannot be her.

Christine in Herts
17-03-09, 19:19
I don't know of a middle name but she was on the 1891 census aged 1 and from Northampton so it cannot be her.

Unless they forgot to register her and she was registered late, via the nearest office?... but I'd have thought there's be somewhere nearer than Widnes?

Christine

Carolyn P
17-03-09, 19:42
I'd like to confirm what Richard said earlier about the records for St Peter & St Paul, Kettering (the main C of E church) not being deposited at the Northampton Record Office. Last summer my sister and I had to make an appointment to go and view them in the church under the guidance of a couple of church wardens, who were very knowledgeable about the local area and families who had lived there. From memory I think the only time we could visit was wednesday mornings between 10.00 - 12.00. I do know that there is also at least one non-conformist church in Kettering which we haven't yet checked, as we still haven't found everything we were looking for.

Jessbowbag
17-03-09, 20:57
Colin

A law was passed in the 1980s regarding the preservation of church registers. It requires that the "keeper" of old registers stores them in a controlled humidity and a place safe from predators such as mice and damp etc.

It may be that this Vicar stores them in a safe, which he feels is adequate. There is no law stating that any completed register must be handed to County Archives or Diocesan Archives, it's just that many churches prefer to do this if they do not have adequate storage facilities, and/or recognise the historical value of an old register

It also has to be said that a few Vicars/churches etc feel proprietorial towards their registers and wouldn't let them go anywhere. There have been cases where a departing Vicar has taken the register with him (grrr!).

I have never heard of any court case regarding the unsuitable storage of registers, so I suspect it is a law without teeth, or a law with no one interested in enforcing it!

OC

I belive, it was in the case of Northamptonshire, That The Bishop of Brixworth had something to do with it. Very little on the IGI either- same bloke in a strop.