The Winner of WDWTYA? 5th March 2009 is....

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

LorraineJ !!

Well done Lorraine

[LorraineJ]

Thank you Merry

Hi Everyone

When I entered this competition, I had a gap in mind which I have solved. This does not mean that the forum is going to get a weeks holiday lol.

These are your puzzles:

The first concerns my GGF William Charles Thomson who was born 13 July 1839. What was the name of his wife. A friend and I did think it was a Mary Anne Whittaker, but don't think it can be her, as the ages are wrong on census's later. The names we came up with were either Mary Anne or Annie.

My other puzzle concerns my maternal grandfather's family. Is there anyway I can find out the names of his brothers and sisters. What I know is that he was one of eight, they lived in the Hull area, when my Mum was born he earned his living as a printer for the hotels in Brighton (about 1930) He married a Lilias Helen Smith in Dec 1919, she was born 1896 volume 7b page 80. I don't know his birth date, he was named Thomas William Wilson, lied about his age in WW1 and joined up as a despatch rider. His youngest sister Dorothy died of tetanus when she was six.

Your help would be much appreciated MTIA. I have asked two puzzles rather than one, as I am not sure which is the easiest. I'd be delighted if I could have answers to both, but don't know whats the most complex. If you could tell me what approach to follow, if there is a way of finding out about children's deaths for example that would be great too.

[KiteRunner]

The first concerns my GGF William Charles Thomson who was born 13 July 1839. What was the name of his wife. A friend and I did think it was a Mary Anne Whittaker, but don't think it can be her, as the ages are wrong on census's later. The names we came up with were either Mary Anne or Annie.

For this one, the best thing would be for you to get the birth certificate of one of William's children, preferably the one who is your direct ancestor, as that will tell you the mother's maiden name (and any other surnames she had). We could look on censuses etc and come up with some guesses but unless we get lucky, there might not be any evidence to back it up unless you get a birth certificate. Can you give us the info you have about William's children, please, so we can have a look anyway?

[KiteRunner]

My other puzzle concerns my maternal grandfather's family. Is there anyway I can find out the names of his brothers and sisters. What I know is that he was one of eight, they lived in the Hull area, when my Mum was born he earned his living as a printer for the hotels in Brighton (about 1930) He married a Lilias Helen Smith in Dec 1919, she was born 1896 volume 7b page 80. I don't know his birth date, he was named Thomas William Wilson, lied about his age in WW1 and joined up as a despatch rider. His youngest sister Dorothy died of tetanus when she was six.

Sorry to say that this one really needs a certificate too - the marriage certificate between Thomas and Lilias. If I remember correctly, his name is just given as Thomas Wilson on the marriage index with no middle name? The marriage certificate will give you the names and occupations of Thomas's and Lilias's respective fathers, which are going to be essential to avoid going wrong with such common surnames.

[LorraineJ]

For this one, the best thing would be for you to get the birth certificate of one of William's children, preferably the one who is your direct ancestor, as that will tell you the mother's maiden name (and any other surnames she had). We could look on censuses etc and come up with some guesses but unless we get lucky, there might not be any evidence to back it up unless you get a birth certificate. Can you give us the info you have about William's children, please, so we can have a look anyway?

As far as I can tell, he and the mystery woman only had the one son, another William Charles Thom(p)son who was born in 1877 (my grandfather) and he finished his life in Nottingham but I have yet to look up when.

[LorraineJ]

Sorry to say that this one really needs a certificate too - the marriage certificate between Thomas and Lilias. If I remember correctly, his name is just given as Thomas Wilson on the marriage index with no middle name? The marriage certificate will give you the names and occupations of Thomas's and Lilias's respective fathers, which are going to be essential to avoid going wrong with such common surnames.

I was going to get the marriage certificate between Thomas William Wilson and Lilias Helen Smith in any case. I know that Lilias' parents were Albert and Helen Smith and his parents were Richard and Harriet Smith and they were bootmaker employers in Capel, Sussex/Surrey

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Can you tell us where Wm Chas Thompson b 1877 was born please?

[KiteRunner]

I just checked the marriage index and Thomas's name is just given as Thomas Wilson on there, with no middle name - worth bearing in mind when you order the cert because if you put his name down as Thomas William Wilson and it just says Thomas Wilson on the cert they might not send it.

[LorraineJ]

Can you tell us where Wm Chas Thompson b 1877 was born please?

As far as I can tell from friend's notes, it looks as if he was registered in St Pancras.

[LorraineJ]

I just checked the marriage index and Thomas's name is just given as Thomas Wilson on there, with no middle name - worth bearing in mind when you order the cert because if you put his name down as Thomas William Wilson and it just says Thomas Wilson on the cert they might not send it.

Right, I'll remember that, thanks.

I have tracked down the child that died of a cat scratch (tetanus) and was hoping to link this in with the census; you won't be at all surprised to learn that she wasn't born for the 1891 census and died the same year as the 1901 one.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

As far as I can tell from friend's notes, it looks as if he was registered in St Pancras.

I can't see a Pancras registration!


When and where and to whom did he marry?

[KiteRunner]

It was William Charles Thomson born 1839 who was the St Pancras one - I found his baptism / birth on the IGI the other day, didn't I? And you already had it in your notes, I think. Not sure if there is also an 1877 one?

Oh, sorry, I see now you say there was an 1877 one. But it was the 1839 one who was born Pancras, anyway.

[KiteRunner]

Okay, I think this might be your family in 1881?

Barnby Gate, Newark, Nottinghamshire
Willm Thompson Head Mar 41 Gilder(?) Middlesex St Pancras
Mary A Do Wife Mar 42 Shirt Maker Lincoln Boston
Willm Do Son 4 Notts Newark

[KiteRunner]

And in 1891, at 8 Marks Lane, Newark:
William Thomson Head M 56 Gilder & Picture Framer London St Pancras
Mary A Do Wife M 52 Shirt Maker Lincs Deeping
William Do Son 14 Notts Newark

[KiteRunner]

Back to 1871, this will be where you got the name Annie for his wife:
78 Church Gate, Leicester
William C Thompson Lodger Mar 31 Gilder St Pancras Middlesex
Annie " Wife 31 Dressmaker Lincoln

Probably her name was Mary Ann but she was known as Annie. Now to see if I can spot William jr's birth registration...

[KiteRunner]

Oh okay, yes, this will be William jr's birth registration:

Births Dec 1876
Thomson William Charles, Newark, vol 7b page 400.

So if you order a copy of his birth certificate, it will tell you his mother's maiden name.

[brenmac]

congratulations have a wonderfull week building brenda xxx

[LorraineJ]

Oh okay, yes, this will be William jr's birth registration:

Births Dec 1876
Thomson William Charles, Newark, vol 7b page 400.

So if you order a copy of his birth certificate, it will tell you his mother's maiden name.

Hi, I am waiting for the certificate of William Charles senior to come (not having ordered one before I wanted to see I'd done it right).

I think your fishing expedition has to be spot on, as it fits in exactly about the gilder and Boston is mentoned in my notes. Think I need to make a copy of your research before it disappears. Thanks once again, if I need more problem solving I'll let you know.

Yes, I have got a problem, the name Charing, as I understand it, its a name that was introduced in the late 1800s to replace the original surname, which was unpronouncable to the English. There were a lot of Anglesizing of names, is there a list in existence of names and their origins, both what from and what they became?

[KiteRunner]

I expect you can find such lists if you search around but I don't think you would be able to rely on their accuracy in the case of any particular family. If you post up what you have about your Charings (excluding any still living) then we could start from there?

[Uncle John]

Think I need to make a copy of your research before it disappears.

I don't think that threads on the Research Q&A board are ever deleted. All that will happen with this thread is that it will be un-stickied at the end of your week and will drop down the list in the usual way.