Birthplace variation

[Just Gillian]

Stephen Bell was my gt gt grandfather. I have found no record of his birth or baptism but, as he married in Scotland, know his parents were Henry Bell and Martha Hanks with whom he was living in Wiltshire in 1841 and 1851. I have been unable to find a marriage record for Henry and Martha and Martha's place of birth, Haventon, Wilts, doesn't seem to have existed.

The following is a list of Stephen's dates and places of birth. Whilst I can understand a mistake being made on the naval documents, I cannot think of a reasonable explanation for why he should switch to and fro between Birmingham and Salisbury for pob on the census.

I wondered if anyone could come up with a theory?

1841 c1826 Wiltshire

1851 c1823 Wilts East Harnham

1854 b 13th October 1832 Salisbury Wilts (Royal Navy Enlistment)

1859 c1831 (Marriage in Scotland)

1861 c1832 Salisbury England (with wife in Scotland)
c1832 Birmingham Warwick (on board HMS Edinburgh Scotland)

1864 b 13th October 1832 Birmingham (signing on for further 10 years Royal Navy)

1871 c1833 Warwick Birmingham

1874 b 13th October 1832 Salisbury (Navy discharge docs)

1881 c1838 Salisbury

1891 c1833 Warwick Birmingham

[Little Nell]

Gillian

I have a few variants, which are understandable, like putting Aldgate instead of Whitechapel.

But I also have people who change their minds every census and husband has an elusive gt x 3 grandmother who has the same place name but two different counties on the 3 censuses on which she appears!!! No, its not a boundary change, there are 2 places with the same name in 2 different counties - and either is equally plausible!

[Just Gillian]

Thanks Nell. I just don't understand how he could pick two places so far apart and which don't even sound similar unless he was confusing "where are you from" with "where were you born".

I'm stymied on this family - too many Bells in Wiltshire to identify Henry's possible birth and death (he was dead by 1859) while Martha had apparently disappeared by 1861 so I only have her 1851 non-existent birthplace of Haventon as a starting point for their place of marriage.:(

[AlanC]

Just a thought,.....................maybe he didnt really know.

[Christine in Herts]

Have looked original docs (or images)? or transcriptions?

The shape of "Haventon" is not all that different from the shape of "Harnham"

Christine

(and my g-g-father oscillated his PoB between Maidenhead and Ilford! - actually b in Ilford, and brought up near Maidenhead)

[Katarzyna]

I don't suppose it could be Staverton could it? The ST as H and r as an n?

[Just Gillian]

Alan - thank you. That is one possibility I had not considered.

Thanks Christine. The documents have all been originals not transcripts. I agree Haventon and Harnham are not dissimilar in shape but the enumerator was writing East Harnham for other family members immediately above and below Martha's Haventon.

Thanks Kat. I've just had another look at the 1851 entry and Staverton could be a possibility although the first letter seems to be the same as the H in Handley below.
HO107/1846 P13. I'll have a look around to see what I can find out about Staverton.

Nanna Anna looked for a baptism for Stephen for me at Wiltshire RO a couple of years ago from 1815 to 1840 but the first Bell child showing was Henry baptised 3/4/1831. Henry is shown as Stephen's younger brother in 1841 and 1851 so Stephen's Navy dob must be incorrect.

[Christine in Herts]

...

Thanks Christine. The documents have all been originals not transcripts. I agree Haventon and Harnham are not dissimilar in shape but the enumerator was writing East Harnham for other family members immediately above and below Martha's Haventon.

...

In that case, the Staverton idea seems much more of a possibility!

Christine

[PeteW1959]

1861 c1832 Salisbury England (with wife in Scotland)
c1832 Birmingham Warwick (on board HMS Edinburgh Scotland)

Is it possible that you have 2 different Stephen Bells? In theory he should only have been on one census return, either at home or at sea, although his wife may well have still considered him as head of household and still put him down whilst he was away.

[Just Gillian]

Christine - Thanks. I think you're probably right. There doesn't seem to be much online for Staverton, Wilts so I think this will have to be another of the items on the list for the day when I ccan eventually get to Wilts RO.

Pete - Thanks for the idea. I have wondered the same myself and have re-checked several times.. But his 1871 RN entry aboard HMS Edinburgh ties in with his naval service records and the 1871 with his wife in Queensferry ties in with the 1869 birthplace of one of his daughters. The 1871 could be doubtful as he should have been with HMS Repulse (the last wooden battleship built for the navy) in Queensferry but was listed as RN reserve in Minster, Sheppey. But, in 1874, three of his children were buried within a week in Minster. On all the others, he is definitely with his wife and children.

[Christine in Herts]

On the two-places-at-once front... I do have this in more than one instance.

In the case of one navy person in 1881 - he was on the "not on board" list, so legitimately noted in two places. The transcription had not included the critical "Not"!

I also have a child who is simultaneously with grandparents and at home. Possibly the enumerator visited on separate days.

Christine