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  • 1880s

    am I right to assume that generally, shoemakers, carpenters, tailors and pipemakers in the 1880s were poor?
    Jules

    I'anson of Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. Bannister of Lincolnshire. Burnett of Northumberland. Carter of Sussex and Hampshire. Goldring of Sussex and Hampshire. Fitzgerald of Goodness knows where. Smith of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Dixon of Lincolnshire. Payne of Hampshire

  • #2
    I don't think so, Jules, certainly not compared to labourers, ag labs and the like. Maybe not rich, but not at the bottom of the ladder. They would have been apprentices to learn their trade.
    KiteRunner

    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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    • #3
      Hmm I was reading a book the other day (already forgotten the title) and I just had the feeling that the families were always scraping around for food and money. I'm glad they weren't poor, most of my ancestors seem to have had these trades.
      Jules

      I'anson of Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. Bannister of Lincolnshire. Burnett of Northumberland. Carter of Sussex and Hampshire. Goldring of Sussex and Hampshire. Fitzgerald of Goodness knows where. Smith of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Dixon of Lincolnshire. Payne of Hampshire

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      • #4
        My shoemaker left each of his nine children £300 in the 1880s besides several other small amounts to non-family.

        I agree with Kate, tradesmen weren't the bottom of the heap by any means.

        OC

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        • #5
          My OH had a tailor in the family. He moved every 10 years (that I know of) and ended up in a well-to-do area. I can't remember his name offhand or I'd look it up for you.
          Kit

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          • #6
            So, you reckon it would be worth my time looking to see if any of them left wills? This is something I haven't looked into yet as I always thought they would be too poor to bother with one.

            Another avenue to explore...

            Many thanks for the input.
            Jules

            I'anson of Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. Bannister of Lincolnshire. Burnett of Northumberland. Carter of Sussex and Hampshire. Goldring of Sussex and Hampshire. Fitzgerald of Goodness knows where. Smith of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Dixon of Lincolnshire. Payne of Hampshire

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            • #7
              Definitely worth a look I'd say!
              I've found wills for 2 brickmakers, a bricklayer and a harness maker.
              Last edited by Cloggie; 27-02-09, 13:32.
              Sarah

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              • #8
                If nothing else these tradesmen had their tools to leave and often wanted them to go to relatives rather than just be sold.
                Margaret

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
                  If nothing else these tradesmen had their tools to leave and often wanted them to go to relatives rather than just be sold.
                  Margaret
                  Good thinking. I will start that search for definate deaths I have.

                  many thanks everyone
                  Jules

                  I'anson of Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. Bannister of Lincolnshire. Burnett of Northumberland. Carter of Sussex and Hampshire. Goldring of Sussex and Hampshire. Fitzgerald of Goodness knows where. Smith of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Dixon of Lincolnshire. Payne of Hampshire

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Impossible to generalise there were extremely rich shoemakers and extremely poor shoemakers and every stage in between.
                    Just as today some people were very successful making “designer shoes others scraped by doing a repair here and a repair there.
                    Cheers
                    Guy
                    Guy passed away October 2022

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                    • #11
                      The will of my shoemaker carefully lists his tools (to go to his eldest son who is also a shoemaker) but his tool chest is to go to his grandson.

                      He also lists various pieces of leather and what they cost him "if they shall not be used before my death" and instructs that his eldest son be given first refusal at cost price to the estate.

                      No, you can't generalise about status, it depends on many things - a successful shoemaker who caught TB and was unable to work, would be a poor shoemaker by the time he died. But a man with a trade was better placed generally than a man without one.

                      OC

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                      • #12
                        For once (lol) I have to agree with Guy here. Maybe the majority of tradesmen were not on the poverty line, but if your shoemaker (or whatever) wasn't one of the majority then it doesn't matter about what situation the others were in.

                        I was reading yesterday in a Victorian newspaper of a family where the husband was in court for beating his wife senseless. There was a lot of evidence given by neighbours etc about the state of the house, the fact that the husband was never working and drank too much and that the children were half-starved, maltreated and neglected, etc etc etc. He was given 8mths hard labour.

                        I looked them up on the census (two years after the newspaper report - they were together again) and he was a french polisher with his wife and five children, on the census before they were in the same town, same occ, with one child - all very "respectable". You wouldn't know what their lives were like from this.

                        That's not to say that chances are your tradesmen (I have a lot in my tree too) were reasonably comfortable and successful, but that wasn't the case for all of them.

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                        • #13
                          I have an Agricultural Labourer who left a will! He had his money in the Post Office Savings Bank and some more money in the Star Benefit Society. He divided all his tools and wearing apparel in equal shares to his sons. When he died in 1885 he left the grand sum of £40.15s.8d.
                          to be divided between his six children!

                          You do wonder how much it would have cost to have to will drawn up and then proved, he obviously thought it was worth it!

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                          • #14
                            My "shoemakers" worked in the sweatshops of the East End and were anything but rich!
                            Sue

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                            • #15
                              Dave Annal showed me a labourer's Will at The National Archives. He didn't have much to leave, but he wanted to be buried in his native parish - so his birthplace was mentioned, very valuable as he was living miles away in a different county when he wrote the Will.

                              Dave said you should always check for a Will because you never know...
                              ~ with love from Little Nell~
                              Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                              • #16
                                Sue

                                Yes, depends on whether they were self employed or not. I would think shoemakers who were employees would possibly be worse off than those who worked on their own account.

                                The cost of having a will drawn up was often offset by the determination that the Crown wasn't getting your bit when you died! In certain counties (Lancashire, Cornwall, but others as well) if you died intestate then the Duchy got your bits and bobs.

                                Many of my ag labs left wills,which make pitiful reading: "Two brown hens at lay and a wooden bucket to my wife" sort of thing. But a few who were masquerading as ag labs on the census were actually wealthy land owners - one "ag lab" left 1500 acres and nearly £2000.

                                Someone on here sent me an admon from the late 1700s, on the Isle of Man. Wives were entitled to half at admon and I wanted to weep at the inventory - half a broken pot, half a kettle with a hole in it, half a broken chair and so on. I don't know if this was a typical admon but they had listed absolutely everything and there wasn't much.

                                OC

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                                • #17
                                  It is always worth looking for a will because rich or poor many people left wills. My shoemaker left a will and he left £30 in 1912 to the workhouse master, nothing else so he was clearly not wealthy but it gave me a date of his death and tied his life together neatly.

                                  Janet

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                                  • #18
                                    I admit that I have never looked for will's for any of my shoemakers and perhaps I should, but as they lived in some of the streets coloured black on the Booth maps of East London I don't hold out much hope!
                                    Sue

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                                    • #19
                                      It is also useful to look at the occupations in the workhouse records. The following site is excellent try a search for shoemaker or other occupation.
                                      www.workhouses.org.uk - The Workhouse Web Site

                                      Then like now there are many reasons why a person with a trade may not have been successful.
                                      Cheers
                                      Guy
                                      Guy passed away October 2022

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                                      • #20
                                        I have a goldsmith/watchmaker who passed the business to his son and son-in-law. It didn't take many years for the business to go bust. The son-in-law died of syphylis during his bankruptcy proceedings and the son made a new life in Scotland.
                                        Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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