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one and one equaling three THACKHAM??

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  • one and one equaling three THACKHAM??

    Am I jumping to conclusions?

    Recently I traced the life of Ellen Thackham (I'm assuming this Ellen was born in 1838 - freebmd report only one Ellen born around that time)
    Ellen married James William Pearman on Oct 29, 1863 in Stratfield Turgis Many years ago I read the parish records and noted that James, full age, baker, of Stratfield Turgis, father James married Ellen, full age, of STratfield Saye, father Joseph.
    James died shortly after a son was born. Ellen remarried Richard Mason and had children. I have easily traced this family through to the 1901 census.

    I've been assuming that Ellen is a relation.

    My great great grandmother, Mary Charlotte Thackham was born to Francis and Charlotte Thackham in 1830. Francis and Charlotte had George 1819, Jane 1821, Sarah 1824, Mary 1830 and Ellen 1838. Well that is what I read in the Stratfield Saye parish records many years ago.

    Then I notice that the marriage details say Ellen's father is Joseph??!!


    Could the minister in STratfield Turgis have made a mistake. Ellen was not from his parish. There is a Joseph Thackham and family nearby in Hartley Wintley. The 1841 census for Joseph does not list any Ellen. He does have an Ann born 1838 who is living at home with Joseph in 1861.

    A descendent of this Ellen emigrated to Canada at the turn of the century with a grandchild of Mary Charlotte. I've assumed they were cousins but maybe they were just friends.

    Does anyone know if the official marriage certificate has to be the exact same as the parish records or could it be different?

    Thanks for any ideas? Because of time zone difference I may not be awake to answer questions right away.
    Donelda

    searching for the Berkshire Hobbises, Rowles, Staniford, Rogers, Parkers, Thackhams, Gouts, LeBouviers, Heaphys and Wilsons

  • #2
    You probably need to get Ellen's birth cert. Have you got a maiden name for Ellen's mum?

    You could use that as a check.

    My great grandfather was the son of James. I have him as the son of James everywhere except his brith cert which has Joseph. Mother is correct.

    I'm assuming Jas was written on the original and transcribed as Jos.

    Comment


    • #3
      Ellen's mother is Charlotte Goddard.
      Donelda

      searching for the Berkshire Hobbises, Rowles, Staniford, Rogers, Parkers, Thackhams, Gouts, LeBouviers, Heaphys and Wilsons

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      • #4
        That would be one way to check......Get Ellen's birth cert but put Charlotte Goddard as mother's name.

        Comment


        • #5
          Good morning Donelda...what county is Stratfield Turgis in please..
          my gg grandmother is in the parish records on her birth cert as Marianne...on her marriage cert its Mary Ann.??allanadded...morning Libby...howya doing ??
          Last edited by garstonite; 27-02-09, 07:08.
          Allan ......... researching oakes/anyon/standish/collins/hartley/barker/collins-cheshire
          oakes/tipping/ellis/jones/schacht/...garston, liverpool
          adams-shropshire/roberts-welshpool
          merrick/lewis/stringham/nicolls-herefordshire
          coxon/williamson/kay/weaver-glossop/stockport/walker-gorton

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          • #6
            OK Donelda.... records on freebmd
            Ellens Birth is there in 1838( 7 45)
            Ellens marriage is there in 1863 2c 381 Basingstoke and James Pearmans 2c 381 marriage matches Ellens ..presumably we are trying to prove Ellens father as
            Francis ?
            or
            Joseph ?
            sorry to say the only possible answer I can see is to buy the cert for Ellen....allan;)
            Allan ......... researching oakes/anyon/standish/collins/hartley/barker/collins-cheshire
            oakes/tipping/ellis/jones/schacht/...garston, liverpool
            adams-shropshire/roberts-welshpool
            merrick/lewis/stringham/nicolls-herefordshire
            coxon/williamson/kay/weaver-glossop/stockport/walker-gorton

            Comment


            • #7
              Does Ellen's birthplace on the censuses match the place you think she was born? Remember that the parish of residence on a marriage certificate isn't necessarily the parish of birth.
              I can't see that getting the birth certificate is going to prove that it is your Ellen who married James (assuminig the birth cert says Francis and Charlotte for the parents' names). Also, not all births were registered at that time.
              Who were the witnesses at the wedding?
              Last edited by KiteRunner; 27-02-09, 09:37.
              KiteRunner

              Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
              (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

              Comment


              • #8
                The witnesses listed in the parish record are Susan Pearman and John Parker.
                John Parker is the husband of Mary Charlotte Thackham, Ellen's sister.
                Since i can find only one Ellen Thackham in the 1841 census and she is living with father Francis
                Since I can find a Joseph Thackham in 1841 but he has no daughters named Ellen
                Since John Parker, husband to Mary Thackham witnessed the marriage
                Then I will jump to the conclusion that the info on the marriage record of father Joseph is an error
                Until someone else proves me wrong.
                And I will make that note in FTM
                Stratfield Saye and Stratfield Turgis are south of Reading in Hampshire.
                Thank you for your thoughts
                Donelda

                searching for the Berkshire Hobbises, Rowles, Staniford, Rogers, Parkers, Thackhams, Gouts, LeBouviers, Heaphys and Wilsons

                Comment


                • #9
                  Donelda, I have some information for you from the National Probate Calendar which might help.

                  1865 THACKHAM Francis
                  Effects under £600, resworn July 1875 under £800.
                  31 January. The will of Francis Thackham late of Strathfieldsaye in the County of Southampton Beerseller deceased who died 19 November 1864 at Strathfieldsaye aforesaid was proved at the Principal Registry by the oath of Richard Goddard of Swallowfield in the County of Berks Farmer one of the executors.

                  1875 THACKHAM Charlotte
                  29 June. The will of Charlotte Thackham late of Sherfield Green near Basingstoke in the County of Southampton widow who died 2 April 1875 at Sherfield Green was proved at Winchester by William Haynes Fry of Reading in the County of Berks Brewer's Clerk and George Holloway of Swallowfield in the County of Berks two of the Executors.


                  If these are the right people, then you could order the wills - hopefully one or other of them will mention Ellen and anyway, they will probably have other useful info about your family in them.

                  This link will take you to the info about how to order copies of wills:
                  Publications - Guidance - Probate - Guide to obtaining copies of probate records
                  The form you need is a PA1S.
                  KiteRunner

                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The 1841 census doesn't usually show the relationships of people listed in the household so whilst it is a good guess that mum and dad are shown first then all the children it may not be true.
                    Margaret

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                    • #11
                      In 1861 Ellen Thackham is visiting a George Holloway and his wife Sarah Ann, Sarah Ann was born abt 1826 Stratfield Saye, there is a marriage in 1844 for a George Holloway and there is a Sarah Ann Thackham on the page.

                      Now in 1841 there is a Sarah Thackham about the right age but she is with Joseph and Mary. All seems very confusing, real shame there is no relationships on the 1841 census.

                      You said Ellen married twice, do both her marriages say the father is Joseph?
                      Fiona. xx

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        DOH some people are so thickheaded. ;) OF COURSE. Order the second marriage certificate.:D
                        From the Census I am sure that Ellen Pearman married Richard Mason because on the census her first son Pearman is living with the Masons. So if the second marriage certificate says father Francis then the first one must of been in error. And if it says Joseph then I have been barking up the wrong tree.

                        And thank you Kiterunner from the probate information. That Francis and Charlotte are my 3xg grandparents and their wills will be of interest.

                        Now to go earn some $$ to support this hobby.
                        Donelda

                        searching for the Berkshire Hobbises, Rowles, Staniford, Rogers, Parkers, Thackhams, Gouts, LeBouviers, Heaphys and Wilsons

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Is it possible that Ellen was in fact the daughter of Joseph but for some reason as being brought up by Francis and Charlotte.Is there a death for Josephs wife around this time or is she away visiting rellies

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My original research many years ago (before internet) was from microfilmed parish registers from villages around Silchester/Stratfieldsaye. I gathered all the Thackham names I could find and sorted them to families. So I am pretty sure that Francis (father Willliam) and Charlotte had George 1819, Jane 1821, Sarah 1824, Mary 1830 and Ellen 1838. And that Joseph (father Joseph) had William 1823, Sarah 1826 and Henry 1829. Hartley Wintley was off my radar so Joseph's Ann 1838 is a new discovery from the census. Interesting that both families had a long break in children at the same time from 1830 to 1838.
                            The marriage certificate for the second marriage has been ordered. I will update this thread when it arrives.
                            Thanks to everyone for your very helpful suggestions
                            Donelda

                            searching for the Berkshire Hobbises, Rowles, Staniford, Rogers, Parkers, Thackhams, Gouts, LeBouviers, Heaphys and Wilsons

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The IGI has a baptism for Ellen, parents Francis and Charlotte, so I'm sure you copied it out right from the PR's; the question is just whether the Ellen whose marriages you have found, and who you have found on the censuses, is the same one as the one in that baptism.
                              KiteRunner

                              Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                              (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Marriage certificate arrived today Hallelula
                                Ellen Pearman, widow - father Francis Thackham Inn Keeper deceased.
                                and the marriage is witnessed by her brother in law John Parker and her niece Alma.
                                Mystery solved.
                                Donelda

                                searching for the Berkshire Hobbises, Rowles, Staniford, Rogers, Parkers, Thackhams, Gouts, LeBouviers, Heaphys and Wilsons

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