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kylejustin
26-02-09, 05:01
hello all, have a little mystery that might need some work.
mary ellen harker, on the census is listed very weird. some thoughts and later locations please?

1861- rg 9, piece 3672, folio 70, page 25

john coates- 31, b.1830, melbecks, nth yorkshire.mar, head. lead miner
mary " -29, b.1832, " . mar, wife
mary ellen harker- 8, b.1853, n.america, iowa state, b. subject. daur in law, scholar
william coates- 3, b.1858, melbecks, nth yorkshire.son
simon " - 2, b.1859, " . son

and in 1871-rg 10, piece 4872, folio 59, page 14

john coates- 41, b.1830, melbecks, yorkshire. mar, head. lead miner
mary " - 39, b. 1832, " . mar, wife. lead miner's wife
mary ellen harker- 18, b.1853, iowa, united states. unmar, daughr. miner's daughter.
william coates- 13, b.1858, melbecks, yorkshire. son, lead miner
simon " - 11, b.1860, " . son, lead miner
john " - 9, b.1862, " . son, scholar
margaret hannah coates- 7, b.1864, " .daughter, miner's daughter
james- coates- 5, b.1866, " .son, miner's son.


mary ellen dissapears after this. any thoughts on later census?
and why is she daur in law?
why is she stated as born in iowa the states? if her parents are john and mary, they didn't have time to travel to the us. they've been in reeth the whole time.

dicole
26-02-09, 05:16
I have one in my family born in New York USA about 1838 - it would seem that the family were there for a short time between 1835 (child born in Warwickshire) and 1841, census. Thomas always told the census he was born in New York, and I think I might have found his father as head of household in New York census. I can only assume that father went to NY for work, either on a specific job, or the family did not like it and came home to Birmingham.

Daughter in law can also mean Stepdaughter in the census - do you have her mother Mary's details, birthplace and date, 1841, 1851 census -? could she have gone to America with her family and returned to England before she married ?

Mary Ellen probably married before 1881 census, so this is why you cannot find her - you can always just look for Mary born in US in 1881. There is a member-submitted IGI entry for Mary Ellen Harker born in 1853 in Iowa, but the submitter did not include her parents names. You could try to look further at the Iowa records.

Sometimes our ancestors travelled a lot more than we realise and they were not always wealthy either.

Diane

kylejustin
26-02-09, 05:42
i havn't got the marriage of john coates and mary harker yet. but there are two mary harker's born in the same place and time, which is why i havn't bothered with them in the census yet. i'll see if there's a marriage.

dicole
26-02-09, 06:05
John Coates and Mary Harker, Married Sep Q 1857, Reeth 9d 694.

Mary Ellen could have used the name Coates when she got married,just to make things difficult.

Di

Harrys mum
26-02-09, 06:09
Looks like Mary Coates may have married John Coates after Mary Ellen was born and they mean step daughter. The image certainly has age 8 and scholar in 1861.

Have you looked for a John Coates Mary Harker marriage??

Harrys mum
26-02-09, 06:09
Hang on..................the Harkers live next door.

Back soon.

Harrys mum
26-02-09, 06:11
John Coates and Mary Harker married in 1857.

kylejustin
26-02-09, 06:32
the harkers live next door?
from what i did research, mary was the daughter of james. her mother was either margaret or sarah, depending which family she belonged to.

Grampa Jim
26-02-09, 11:34
Have you tried this Site? The censuses for the whole of Wensleydale transcribed.

Untitled Document (http://www.dalesgenealogy.com/census/framepage1.html)

The Webmistress is very helpful too

1861 Melbecks

120. COATES John/Head/M/31/lead miner/Yks/Melbecks
COATES Mary/wife/M/29/Yks/Melbecks
HARKER Mary Ellen/dau in law/8/scholar/USA/Iowa, British Subject
COATES William/son/3/Yks/Melbecks
COATES Simon/son/2/Yks/Melbecks

Here's another Coates/Harker in the same Census.
150. COATES John/Head/M/57/blacksmith/Yks/Melbecks
COATES Isabella/wife/M/63/Yks/Melbecks
COATES James/son/U/25/lead miner/Yks/Melbecks
COATES George/son/U/23/lead miner/Yks/Melbecks
COATES Thomas/son/U/17/blacksmith/Yks/Melbecks
COATES Elizabeth/dau/13/scholar/Yks/Melbecks
HARKER John/g.son/8/scholar/Yks/Melbecks

Merry Monty Montgomery
26-02-09, 11:49
It looks like Mary Ellen died:

Deaths Jun 1875
HARKER Mary Ellen 22 Reeth 9d 413

I think at the moment you don't know if Mary Ellen's mother was previously married to a Mr Harker or if Mary Ellen was illegitimate, so there would be more work to do if you wanted to check this out.


I havn't got the marriage of john coates and mary harker yet

This cert would tell you if she was a spinster or a widow.

dicole
26-02-09, 11:53
I looked at the census that Jim suggested - in 1851 the BONSON family has a daughter SYNDONIA age 11, who was born in the USA. Listed in the household is Thomas COATES, nephew, Lead mining agent. It seems very strange that this small village has two children born in America. May be the lead mining has something to do with it....

That website also has some parish transcriptions - for John Coates-Mary Harker, they married 10 Sep 1857, he was 27 she 25. His father not given but hers is listed as William Pratt.

So Mary Pratt, daughter of William was born about 1832 in Melbecks, went to Iowa and married Harker (or perhaps married Harker and went to America) before 1853 and returned to Melbecks by 1857. Now there's a challenge

Grampa Jim
26-02-09, 12:05
The Harker who lives next door would appear to be her Brother. I notice they also have a son Simon.

The only Mary Harker of the right age in 1851 is in this family

37. HARKER William/Head/M/53/Lead miner/Yks/Satron
HARKER Mary/wife/M/50/Yks/Lodge Green
HARKER William/son/24/Lead miner/Yks/Satron
HARKER John/son/22/Lead miner/Yks/Satron
HARKER Mary/dau/20/Yks/Satron
HARKER Margaret/dau/18/Mantua maker/Yks/Lodge Green
HARKER Elizabeth/dau/13/Yks/Lodge Green
HARKER Joseph/son/9/scholar/Yks/Lodge Green

dicole
26-02-09, 12:22
The IGI has a Melbecks entry for Mary Pratt, baptised 8 Nov 1831 Wesleyan, Low Row, Father William mother ELLIN.

This family in 1851 has a Mary about the right age:

153. PRATT William/Head/M/44/Capenter master/Yks/Melbecks
PRATT Nelly/wife/M/39/Yks/Melbecks
PRATT Mary/dau/19/Yks/Melbecks
PRATT Thomas/son/18/Carpenter's son/Yks/Melbecks
PRATT Michal/son/13/Carpenter App/Yks/Melbecks
PRATT John/son/11/scholar/Yks/Melbecks
PRATT Ruth/dau/7/scholar/Yks/Melbecks
PRATT Margret/dau/5/Yks/Melbecks
PRATT Isabella/dau/3/Yks/Melbecks
PRATT Ellenor/dau/1/Yks/Melbecks

kylejustin
26-02-09, 14:07
im getting confused here.

william pratt marries ellen. in 1832 they have a daughter mary. she marries around 1852, to a man whose surname is harker. they have mary ellen in 1853, who dies in 1875. mary then marries john coates in 1857, who i believe to be the son of simon coates and mary pratt, married in 1813 grinton.

john coates and mary harker-pratt are the parents of simon, my 2nd great grandfather, who married jane ann gill.

can someone explain exactly what families are covered in the above censuses please? that's the bit giving me the headache i think.

and could someone point how i might find the parish record transcriptions please?

kylejustin
26-02-09, 14:31
it looks like mary pratt married george harker in dec 1851, reeth.

Grampa Jim
26-02-09, 18:39
If you pm me your email addy I will send you all the Pratts, Coateses and Harkers in Melbecks in their families in 1841/51/61 and 71 if they are available. That way you csn check how they link as families.

Vicky the Viking
26-02-09, 19:27
I looked at the census that Jim suggested - in 1851 the BONSON family has a daughter SYNDONIA age 11, who was born in the USA. Listed in the household is Thomas COATES, nephew, Lead mining agent. It seems very strange that this small village has two children born in America. May be the lead mining has something to do with it....



yep :D

I know there was a recession in the early 1830's and a lot of families- like mine - left the Dales. Some stayed in England, going into the Durham coalfields, or sometimes westwards into Lancashire. Some emigrated - USA & Australia. I suppose its perfectly feasible some came back just to see if things were any better, before giving up for good. There were many ups & downs in the industry over the years. Then, as now, whenever there's a recession a lot more are hit than just those who actually work the lead mines. All local trade would have suffered.

There was a boom later in the 19th C but I suppose it was too late for a lot of them by then.

If you ever come over for a look & can get to the Lead Mining Museum in Reeth I'd recommend a look. They have loads of old documents too (but don't bother asking if they will do any research for you)

Uncle John
26-02-09, 21:01
Gold and silver mining in the Rockies (Colorado and New Mexico) took off in the 1860s, after the Californian gold rush finished.

dicole
26-02-09, 21:26
Hi Vicky

Yes, mine did too. We have miners from Leadhills Scotland who migrated to New Zealand, but they did not go back to Scotland.

Di

kylejustin
27-02-09, 05:35
thanks for the clear up, vicky. these coates did move to durham eventually.

thanks di, its great help.

thanks so much grampa jim, ive pm'd you.

Grampa Jim
28-02-09, 14:35
1841 and 1851 sent, others will follow.

Grampa Jim
01-03-09, 10:38
1861 sent.

kylejustin
02-03-09, 05:28
thankyou very much.