Coincidense or normal???

[nigele2]

I’m looking for family French somewhere in London (north near Kilburn I think)

Parents married 1886 : William French and Caroline Lacey/Coomb
The children in order with one known (100%) year of birth:

William, Louisa, Gertrude (1887), Catherine, Ethel, Gladys, James

We know the mother dies in 1900 and William the eldest son is sent to Devon for corrective measures.
So when I find the following among not dozens of results in the 1901 census I think I’m on to something

Name/dob/pob/res
William/1854/-/Camberwell
Louisa/1883/Camberwell/Camberwell
Gertrude/1887/E. Dulwich/Camberwell
Ethel/1891/Peckham/Camberwell
Gladys/1892/Camberwell/Camberwell
James/1898/Camberwell/Camberwell

OK Catherine is missing but even so:D

But it is not to be. They live at different addresses with other family members. Have others found such incredible surprises.

[KiteRunner]

If you mean they are other people with the same names as the ones in your family, I seem to remember from doing one side-branch of my tree that French is a fairly common name, and those were mostly pretty popular first names at that time, so I wouldn't say it's that surprising really.

[nigele2]

Perhaps I'm getting this wrong!!

Kiterunner am I missing something? Probably :D

If I search for Gertrude French in the 1901 census giving a dob range of 20 years there are 41. And 2 of them live in Camberwell.

Louisa (more common I thought) only gives 43 with two in Camberwell.

And while they are common names they are in correct dob order and we know James was born about 1898 as he died in WW1 in 1916 aged less than 20.

If I've got this all wrong please help. In the meantime I'm off to buy a lottery ticket ;)

[KiteRunner]

Well, one thing that doesn't seem to add up is you say that William and Caroline married in 1886 but Gertrude born 1887 was their third child? I'm looking on the 1891 census now but not found your family yet - but I have spotted the "other" Louisa and the "other" Gertrude with the same families they have in 1901, so I don't think anything fishy was going on with them!

[KiteRunner]

Ooh, I think I've found your family in 1891 as the very next household (living at the same address) is a widow called Caroline Coombs, and note the stepson is a Lacey. It looks as though some of the children you mention may have been known by their middle names:

(Surname of children transcribed as Franch on ancestry)

RG12; Piece: 227; Folio 29; Page 52

32 Cumming St., Clerkenwell
William French Head M 37 Butcher Devon Torquay
Caroline A(?) " Wife London Moorfields
John L Lacey Stepson 7 Clerkenwell
Caroline L French Daur 4 Newington
Gertrude S(?) " " 3 Lond Notting Hill
William C " Son 2 " "

This may help in looking for them in 1901.

[KiteRunner]

Hmmm, this looks like them in 1901 but the wife still seems to be alive and they have all changed their birthplaces! Oh, and Gertrude is calling herself Jane. Is that her middle name? The middle initial wasn't very clear on the 1891.

Paddington (sorry, not managed to make out what the street address is yet)
William French Head M 47 Butcher Cornwall Newton A
Carolina E Do Wife M 45 Devon Exeter
Do L Do Daur S 14 Middlesex Brentford
Jane Do Do S 13 Do
James Do Son 9 Do
Catherine A Do Daughter S 6 Do
Ethel H Do Do S 4 Do
Elizabeth Do Do S 1 Do

[nigele2]

Thank you

Kiterunner you are a star. You didn't need to do that but I am very grateful.

Certainly Gertrude (my grandmother) had a middle name Jane.

My great grandma was Caroline Harriet Coomb. She married John Lacey 1776 and had a son John. Both father and son died of the same decease early in their lives. I guess taking a lover with a dying or possibly dead husband seemed a good move.

William French is remembered as driving up from Devon 'four in hand' to his true love and he reportedly was devastated when she died (which I guess is after 1901). So one out of wed lock is imaginable. I have Carolines marriage cert and birth cert of my gran (Gertrude) so it fits.

Again many thanks. Nigel

[Little Nell]

I thought French was an unusual name when I found one had married into my family, but it seems to be quite common. I just hadn't come across it before.

I had a nightmare time following the wrong line when I found who I thought were my gt grand and gt gt grandfathers, turns out there were two William Williams with son called Charles living in the same tiny village, both Williams and both Charles were the same age. No relationship between the two sets of fathers and sons.

[nigele2]

are we related?

Nell I have Williams, Dunt and French in my tree.

The French's are very numerous in Devon and many seem to be named William. The records also seem to infer some in-breeding, especially around Widdicombe ;)

Just incase it's useful my Williams moved down from W Midlands/Staffs to Kent in C19. The Dunts were C London 1850 and before, Walthamstow later based later.

Enjoy one and all

[Little Nell]

My Williams are from Gloucestershire; my Dunts from Norfolk and my Frenches from Cambridge.