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If anyone has time - who is this Selina?

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  • If anyone has time - who is this Selina?

    Over on GR, poor Vickie has been trying to find this woman for ages - I cant see her at moment - in 1911 they are in Loughborough, Leicestershire. Both of them born in Nottinghamshire and she is a fair bit older than him. But I cant see a marriage for them. Ill leave Vickies notes for explanation. Ive told her Id ask you super sleuths No mention of previous marriage on the BCs for the kids.


    My Great grandmother was Agnes Marion Kitchen (b1898, Loughborough). Her parents were Henry Maples Kitchen (b1872, Boughton, Nottingham) and Selina (b1864, Plumtree, Nottingham).

    I have Agnes’ birth cert which states MMN as Burchnall, but I can’t find any Selina with this name and for over 2 years I have been unable to find a marriage between Henry & Selina.

    I always thought Agnes was an only child as nobody in my family knew of any siblings plus in 1901 Selina was in her late 30s with only one child.

    I’ve been on the 1911 and was surprised to find they had another child called Frederick Henry Kitchen (b1901, Ashby de la Zouch). Agnes called her first born son Fred in 1921, so I think her brother may have died before this as my family knows nothing of him, although I haven’t been able to find out anything about him as yet.

    I have his birth cert as well which states MMN as Birchenhall. Again I haven’t been able to find any Selina with this name.

    The 1911 census says Henry and Selina have been married for 20 years.

    Can anybody think of where I can go from here? It is driving me mad!!

    Many thanks in advance for any advice/help on who Selina was and maybe what happened to her son Frederick
    Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 25-02-09, 16:10.

  • #2
    Don't know if she has them in 1901, but they are on Class: RG13/2974/104/2

    Henry Kitchen 28 Broughton, Nottinghamshire
    Selena Kitchen 37 Plumtree, Nottinghamshire
    Agnes Kitchen 2 Loughborough, Leicestershire

    Free BMD are having problems at the moment, and I haven't found her on earlier census, but I was looking for Selina.
    Co-ordinator for PoW project Southern Region 08
    Researching:- Wieland, Habbes, Saettele, Bowinkelmann, Freckenhauser, Dilger in Germany
    Kincaid, Warner, Hitchman, Collie, Curtis, Pocock, Stanley, Nixey, McDonald in London, Berks, Bucks, Oxon and West Midlands
    Drake, Beals, Pritchard in Kent
    Devine in Ireland

    Comment


    • #3
      ....and Henry is single living with parents in 1891:-

      RG12/2709/5/4
      Co-ordinator for PoW project Southern Region 08
      Researching:- Wieland, Habbes, Saettele, Bowinkelmann, Freckenhauser, Dilger in Germany
      Kincaid, Warner, Hitchman, Collie, Curtis, Pocock, Stanley, Nixey, McDonald in London, Berks, Bucks, Oxon and West Midlands
      Drake, Beals, Pritchard in Kent
      Devine in Ireland

      Comment


      • #4
        Of course they may not ever have officially married!
        Margaret

        Comment


        • #5
          I think I am going to have to give up on this one, unless......

          The only Selina/Selena born in Plumtree about the right date on the 1871,1881 and 1891 is Selina Clurow b 1866

          Is it possible that she married and Henry Kitchen is her 2nd husband, and she stated her MMN on the birth certificates as her first married name?
          Co-ordinator for PoW project Southern Region 08
          Researching:- Wieland, Habbes, Saettele, Bowinkelmann, Freckenhauser, Dilger in Germany
          Kincaid, Warner, Hitchman, Collie, Curtis, Pocock, Stanley, Nixey, McDonald in London, Berks, Bucks, Oxon and West Midlands
          Drake, Beals, Pritchard in Kent
          Devine in Ireland

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes that a possibility. But there should be a marriage for Birchinhall to Clurow shouldn't there? and when would this Selina have had time to marry someone else before Henry if you found her up to 1891 as Clurow?
            I must get off out just now but will have a think and if no-one else has solved this maybe I'll have chance to have a look again later
            Margaret

            Comment


            • #7
              I've been working on Selina Cluroe (spelling I found) too, Pete, but it's getting me nowhere.

              A Selina Cluro married Arthur Moes in Dec 1897 in Bingham.
              Elizabeth
              Research Interests:
              England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
              Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

              Comment


              • #8
                Yep, its a toughie isnt it. I sat there last night, eyes aching looking at Selinas in Notts. I wonder if she is using a middle name?

                Thanks for trying though guys.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The intriguing thing is, why would they say they had been married for 20 years on the 1911? Its not like they have kids 20 years old, so they are covering up?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've been working on Selina Cluroe (spelling I found) too, Pete, but it's getting me nowhere.

                    A Selina Cluro married Arthur Moes in Dec 1897 in Bingham.
                    lol! I love that name Arfa Moe!

                    I think this might well be him, with a completely different spelling, with Selina Cluro in 1901, making the other Selina......well.....someone else!

                    RG13; Piece: 3203; Folio: 13; Page: 18

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Was she actually

                      HELENA

                      (one letter out!)

                      Death Sep 1918
                      Loughborough
                      Helena Kitchen
                      aged 52

                      This would mean she was born in 1866.

                      It seems to me she might be using different names at different times!

                      Not that I can find her birth!
                      Elizabeth
                      Research Interests:
                      England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                      Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think I'm beginning to clutch at straws but I'm throwing this in just in case:

                        1871 Census
                        Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3549; Folio: 87; Page: 8; GSU roll: 839761.

                        Helen Beastall aged 10
                        Born Plumtree Nottinghamshire
                        Dad looks pretty comfortable - famer with 205 acres.

                        Helen - Helena - Selena
                        Birchall - Birchenhall - Beastall

                        Perhaps I'm going mad!

                        Ellen Beastall born Sep 1860 Bingham (includes Plumtree)
                        Elizabeth
                        Research Interests:
                        England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                        Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I was thinking about how they might have met since Plumtree looks to be a long way from Boughton and so I checked the 1891 census for Boughton (11 pages)for any likely candidates but nothing jumped out.
                          Margaret

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Its a bit mad isnt it guys. LOL Merry, hadnt noticed that.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I posted a birth on the thread on Gr for

                              Selina Burchell in 1867 in Worksop.

                              This Selina is with her grandparents in 1871 and the address is Plumtree.

                              RG10; Piece: 3461; Folio: 85; Page: 17;

                              I found Selina Kitchen in 1901 and she is 44, born 1867.

                              Seems a possibility but haven't found her after 1871.
                              Christine in Portugal

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Elizabeth Herts View Post
                                Was she actually

                                HELENA

                                (one letter out!)

                                Death Sep 1918
                                Loughborough
                                Helena Kitchen
                                aged 52

                                This would mean she was born in 1866.

                                It seems to me she might be using different names at different times!

                                Not that I can find her birth!
                                I have now found a submitted entry on the IGI which might be worth checking:

                                Helena Beardsall
                                Christening:
                                23 APR 1865 Mansfield Road, , Nottingham, England
                                Father: William Cuxon Beardsall
                                Mother: Mary Ann

                                Perhaps Selina is Helena!
                                Elizabeth
                                Research Interests:
                                England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                                Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Hi,

                                  I want to thank everyone for taking the time to help me with this brick wall I've been trying to break through for the past 2 years!

                                  I have ordered Helena Kitchen's death cert from 1918 and a Selina Burchell's birth cert from 1867. I will let you all know when they arrive and hopefully they will lead to some answers!

                                  Thanks again,

                                  Vicky X

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Vicky - I'm looking forward to reading the outcome of the certificates.

                                    It certainly is a tricky problem - I was going round in circles!
                                    Elizabeth
                                    Research Interests:
                                    England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                                    Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      there si a marriage on free bmd for Ellen Beastall Dec Qtr 1883 Mansfield 7b 124 no grooms name is this a possibility

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Oooh, I'll have a look now and see if I can find a possible groom!

                                        Thank you

                                        Vicky X

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