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Revisiting old research........help required!

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  • Revisiting old research........help required!

    Sorry this is so long :o If you only want to do the "easier" bit, then just read the last paragraph!!

    For years I've been aware that one of OH's relatives, Mary Ann Cotton, had apparently made a little step up when she married, moving from being the daughter of a carpenter in the poorer part of St Pancras to the wife of a commercial clerk who gradually moved through Camberwell and on to the suburbs in Essex.

    Mary Ann Cotton married the son of the household where she was a house servant on the 1861 census. Her husband was Theodore Alfred Rogers WALFORD b 1837 in Marylebone and they married in Q2 1862.

    Until recently we had just traced this family forwards and left it at that. Yesterday OH (blame him for this :() mentioned that we had added the parents of the "married in" Theodore, but didn't have his mother's maiden name - could we find it, just to tidy up the record? Theodore had a middle name, Rogers, and this had been given to most of their sons, so it seemed possible this could be his mother's maiden surname (don't think it is though).

    Not that easy! lol

    In 1861:

    RG9; Piece: 108; Folio: 28; Page: 59


    young Mary Ann Cotton (house servant aged 15) was not working for her future mum-in-law as I had thought. In the house are her "intended", Theodore, and his widowed mother, Ellen Walford whose maiden name we are seeking. Also there was Theodore's younger brother George and two sisters of Ellen: Sarah French (head) a widow aged 50 and Elizabeth Something-or-other aged 47 who was single, so should have most likely provided us with Ellen's maiden name, but we can't read it!

    Feeling frustrated at this, we thought we might find the widow Sarah French and her unmarried sister together at another date, to give us another stab at reading Elizabeth's surname.

    In 1871 we found the two sisters at the same address as 1861.

    RG10; Piece: 219; Folio: 32; Page: 58


    Mary French, widow, has aged 7 years since 1861. Her unmarried sister Elizabeth Still-can't-read-it has done even better, dropping from 47 in 1861 to 40 in 1871!

    Next we tried the 1841.

    HO107; Piece 678; Book: 12; Civil Parish: St Marylebone; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 16; Folio: 8; Page: 10; Line: 11


    Couldn't identify find Mary French in this one, but we did find Ellen Walford (widowed in 1840) and her two sons Theodore and George and living with them was Elizabeth Still-can't-read it aged 20, plus another one, Alice Can't-read-hers-either, aged 15.

    Lastly (and this - if your still awake - is where a little turn gets taken) we looked at the 1851 census.

    HO107; Piece: 1467; Folio: 656; Page: 63

    We found Ellen Walford, widow, with her two sons. No sign of Elizabeth or Alice What's-their-names with them, but Mary French is there, aged 34 (what cream were they using?). The difference this time is Mary French says she is unmarried, rather than widowed. She's not head of house either, as they are all visitors in the house of Arthur de Frayne, an Irish peer and MP.

    A bit of googling for Arthur de Frayne showed his birth surname was French (Arthur French, 1st Baron De Freyne of Coolavin)

    So, was Mary "French" the "partner" of the Irish peer, assumed his surname and decided to call herself a widow after his death in 1856?

    And if you can't cope with all that, then could you try and read the surname of Elizabeth Whatever in 1841, 61 or 71 which is all I was going to post in the first place, or find her in 1851 for another look!?

    Thanks for reading
    Last edited by Merry Monty Montgomery; 24-02-09, 14:17.

  • #2
    1841 looks like Gantrip, but no idea from the other census forms.
    Jules

    I'anson of Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. Bannister of Lincolnshire. Burnett of Northumberland. Carter of Sussex and Hampshire. Goldring of Sussex and Hampshire. Fitzgerald of Goodness knows where. Smith of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Dixon of Lincolnshire. Payne of Hampshire

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    • #3
      I'm thinking the surname could be Guntrip, or something similar. Can't find another name that would fit with what's on those three censuses.
      Tracy

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      • #4
        Thing is, Alice and Elizabeth should have married or died at some point, but I can't find and GRO records for a name that seems likely......:(

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
          Thing is, Alice and Elizabeth should have married or died at some point, but I can't find and GRO records for a name that seems likely......:(
          bother, that's what I was about to try!
          KiteRunner

          Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
          (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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          • #6
            Go ahead!

            *sits back*

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            • #7
              There is a death for Elizabeth Guntrip in 1874 - right-ish age.
              Tracy

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              • #8
                IGI Baptism for Elisa Hannah Guntrip 21 Jan 1821 St Marylebone, parents William and Mary, but it's one of those "I" batches.
                KiteRunner

                Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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                • #9
                  But that couple don't seem to have children matching the rest of the family.
                  KiteRunner

                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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                  • #10
                    I don't suppose you want to pay £7 for Theodore's brother's birth certificate?
                    KiteRunner

                    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KiteRunner View Post
                      I don't suppose you want to pay £7 for Theodore's brother's birth certificate?
                      OH said that and I said knowing our luck we wouldn't be able to read that either!

                      Thanks Carol, I'll have a look at that.......

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                      • #12
                        Merry, have you ruled out HO107/1721/121/9 in 1851 (last two entries on page)? Probably a coincidence - Mary and Elizabeth are not exactly rare names are they ;) - but Guntrip isn't very common.

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                        • #13
                          Thanks Roger!

                          Hmmm.....well, my two have said they were born in Marylebone/London on all the censuses so far, but this does at least give further "proof" that such odd names did exist!!

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