Sorry this is so long :o If you only want to do the "easier" bit, then just read the last paragraph!!
For years I've been aware that one of OH's relatives, Mary Ann Cotton, had apparently made a little step up when she married, moving from being the daughter of a carpenter in the poorer part of St Pancras to the wife of a commercial clerk who gradually moved through Camberwell and on to the suburbs in Essex.
Mary Ann Cotton married the son of the household where she was a house servant on the 1861 census. Her husband was Theodore Alfred Rogers WALFORD b 1837 in Marylebone and they married in Q2 1862.
Until recently we had just traced this family forwards and left it at that. Yesterday OH (blame him for this :() mentioned that we had added the parents of the "married in" Theodore, but didn't have his mother's maiden name - could we find it, just to tidy up the record? Theodore had a middle name, Rogers, and this had been given to most of their sons, so it seemed possible this could be his mother's maiden surname (don't think it is though).
Not that easy! lol
In 1861:
RG9; Piece: 108; Folio: 28; Page: 59
young Mary Ann Cotton (house servant aged 15) was not working for her future mum-in-law as I had thought. In the house are her "intended", Theodore, and his widowed mother, Ellen Walford whose maiden name we are seeking. Also there was Theodore's younger brother George and two sisters of Ellen: Sarah French (head) a widow aged 50 and Elizabeth Something-or-other aged 47 who was single, so should have most likely provided us with Ellen's maiden name, but we can't read it!
Feeling frustrated at this, we thought we might find the widow Sarah French and her unmarried sister together at another date, to give us another stab at reading Elizabeth's surname.
In 1871 we found the two sisters at the same address as 1861.
RG10; Piece: 219; Folio: 32; Page: 58
Mary French, widow, has aged 7 years since 1861. Her unmarried sister Elizabeth Still-can't-read-it has done even better, dropping from 47 in 1861 to 40 in 1871!
Next we tried the 1841.
HO107; Piece 678; Book: 12; Civil Parish: St Marylebone; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 16; Folio: 8; Page: 10; Line: 11
Couldn't identify find Mary French in this one, but we did find Ellen Walford (widowed in 1840) and her two sons Theodore and George and living with them was Elizabeth Still-can't-read it aged 20, plus another one, Alice Can't-read-hers-either, aged 15.
Lastly (and this - if your still awake - is where a little turn gets taken) we looked at the 1851 census.
HO107; Piece: 1467; Folio: 656; Page: 63
We found Ellen Walford, widow, with her two sons. No sign of Elizabeth or Alice What's-their-names with them, but Mary French is there, aged 34 (what cream were they using?). The difference this time is Mary French says she is unmarried, rather than widowed. She's not head of house either, as they are all visitors in the house of Arthur de Frayne, an Irish peer and MP.
A bit of googling for Arthur de Frayne showed his birth surname was French (Arthur French, 1st Baron De Freyne of Coolavin)
So, was Mary "French" the "partner" of the Irish peer, assumed his surname and decided to call herself a widow after his death in 1856?
And if you can't cope with all that, then could you try and read the surname of Elizabeth Whatever in 1841, 61 or 71 which is all I was going to post in the first place, or find her in 1851 for another look!?
Thanks for reading
For years I've been aware that one of OH's relatives, Mary Ann Cotton, had apparently made a little step up when she married, moving from being the daughter of a carpenter in the poorer part of St Pancras to the wife of a commercial clerk who gradually moved through Camberwell and on to the suburbs in Essex.
Mary Ann Cotton married the son of the household where she was a house servant on the 1861 census. Her husband was Theodore Alfred Rogers WALFORD b 1837 in Marylebone and they married in Q2 1862.
Until recently we had just traced this family forwards and left it at that. Yesterday OH (blame him for this :() mentioned that we had added the parents of the "married in" Theodore, but didn't have his mother's maiden name - could we find it, just to tidy up the record? Theodore had a middle name, Rogers, and this had been given to most of their sons, so it seemed possible this could be his mother's maiden surname (don't think it is though).
Not that easy! lol
In 1861:
RG9; Piece: 108; Folio: 28; Page: 59
young Mary Ann Cotton (house servant aged 15) was not working for her future mum-in-law as I had thought. In the house are her "intended", Theodore, and his widowed mother, Ellen Walford whose maiden name we are seeking. Also there was Theodore's younger brother George and two sisters of Ellen: Sarah French (head) a widow aged 50 and Elizabeth Something-or-other aged 47 who was single, so should have most likely provided us with Ellen's maiden name, but we can't read it!
Feeling frustrated at this, we thought we might find the widow Sarah French and her unmarried sister together at another date, to give us another stab at reading Elizabeth's surname.
In 1871 we found the two sisters at the same address as 1861.
RG10; Piece: 219; Folio: 32; Page: 58
Mary French, widow, has aged 7 years since 1861. Her unmarried sister Elizabeth Still-can't-read-it has done even better, dropping from 47 in 1861 to 40 in 1871!
Next we tried the 1841.
HO107; Piece 678; Book: 12; Civil Parish: St Marylebone; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 16; Folio: 8; Page: 10; Line: 11
Couldn't identify find Mary French in this one, but we did find Ellen Walford (widowed in 1840) and her two sons Theodore and George and living with them was Elizabeth Still-can't-read it aged 20, plus another one, Alice Can't-read-hers-either, aged 15.
Lastly (and this - if your still awake - is where a little turn gets taken) we looked at the 1851 census.
HO107; Piece: 1467; Folio: 656; Page: 63
We found Ellen Walford, widow, with her two sons. No sign of Elizabeth or Alice What's-their-names with them, but Mary French is there, aged 34 (what cream were they using?). The difference this time is Mary French says she is unmarried, rather than widowed. She's not head of house either, as they are all visitors in the house of Arthur de Frayne, an Irish peer and MP.
A bit of googling for Arthur de Frayne showed his birth surname was French (Arthur French, 1st Baron De Freyne of Coolavin)
So, was Mary "French" the "partner" of the Irish peer, assumed his surname and decided to call herself a widow after his death in 1856?
And if you can't cope with all that, then could you try and read the surname of Elizabeth Whatever in 1841, 61 or 71 which is all I was going to post in the first place, or find her in 1851 for another look!?
Thanks for reading
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