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  • I've got my Popes in a muddle

    Dear all
    I'm hoping somebody will be able to point me in the right direction, as I seem to have hit a brick wall
    The oldest Pope on my tree, Samuel, married Charlotte Bailey in Ewhurst, Sussex on 11 December 1810. They were married by banns, and Samuel's place of residence was recorded as Faversham, Kent. Their children were Sivyer (b. 1811, Ewhurst), Collins (b. 1813, Burwash), and I believe there may have been a daughter too, which I found on the IGI but haven't followed up. Collins was baptised at a Wesleyan church in Cranbrook, so I think the family moved around a fair bit.
    I have tried to find the couple on census returns, unfortunately I haven't been able to find Charlotte at all, however a Samuel Pope crops up in 1851, living in Ashford, age 69, with wife Hannah, and again in 1861, this time his occupation is 'retired linen weaver', which I know is correct from his son's marriage cert. However, it says his place of birth is Etchingham, Sussex, not Faversham (incidentally this is where his son was married).
    Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a Samuel Pope born in Faversham, and I'm really hoping that SP in Ashford is the right one, but is there any way I can be sure given that only one thing matches - the occupation?
    Any advice gratefully received!
    Many thanks,
    Karen

  • #2
    Karen, you said that when Samuel married, his place of residence was Faversham, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was born there, do you have a place of birth?
    Jules

    I'anson of Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. Bannister of Lincolnshire. Burnett of Northumberland. Carter of Sussex and Hampshire. Goldring of Sussex and Hampshire. Fitzgerald of Goodness knows where. Smith of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Dixon of Lincolnshire. Payne of Hampshire

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    • #3
      Hi Jules
      Thanks for responding!
      Unfortunately this is the only reference I have as to where he was from, on the marriage register it says something like 'not of this parish' and just above it is written 'Feversham'.
      Karen

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      • #4
        The information on the marriage cert just means where the person was living at the time of the marriage. If married by banns, they need only have lived there 3 weeks or so before the marriage. It doesn't mean they lived their permanently or that they were born there.
        ~ with love from Little Nell~
        Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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        • #5
          IGI baptism, a submitted entry from LDS member, so you would need to check the original entry:

          Samuel Pope, christening 06 Nov 1768 Etchingham, Sussex
          Parents William Pope & Ann.
          batch: 7534235
          ~ with love from Little Nell~
          Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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          • #6
            I can't see a marriage for a Samuel Pope to Hannah, or you could have sent for the marriage cert to check who Samuel's father was to see if it ties in with the baptism in Etchingham.
            ~ with love from Little Nell~
            Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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            • #7
              Possible death for the first Mrs Pope:

              Deaths Dec 1848 Pope Charlotte E Ashford 55
              ~ with love from Little Nell~
              Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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              • #8
                Little Nell what an absolute treasure you are! You have been very busy

                The Etchingham-born Samuel I found on the 1861 Ashford census was age 79, so that would make the birth date around 1782. However on the 1851 census his place of birth was given as Henlow or Hinlow in Sussex, it's a bit unclear from the handwriting, but I can't find reference to either of them!

                I did see on the IGI a Samuel Pope (or Colling) was christened in Etchingham in 1780 and wondered if this was him, his second child was named Collins which was an unusual name at the time, so not sure if this has any connection. Then again he did also have Sivyer so they probably just liked unusual names. Maybe it's just me getting carried away :D

                Anyhow, I certainly will send off for the death certificate for Charlotte Pope, thanks for finding that, it may hold some clues!

                Best wishes
                Karen

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                • #9
                  Hallo Karen

                  I couldn't see Samuel in 1851, have you got the ref? I also saw the Pope/Colling oneand wondered. There may well be a family connection further back. I am wondering if Sivyer was a variant of the surname Sivier? I would think its probably a maiden name of a female ancestor. My gt gt grandfather Emmets Matthews was named for Anne Emmets, his paternal grandmother.
                  ~ with love from Little Nell~
                  Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                  • #10
                    Regarding Hinlow/Henlow, I see that 1861 has Samuel's wife Hannah saying she was born in Henlow, Kent. Or at least, I think it looks like Henlow but its been transcribed as Hunton. There is a Hunton in Kent, whereas the only Henlow I know is in Bedfordshire.
                    Last edited by Little Nell; 19-02-09, 15:46.
                    ~ with love from Little Nell~
                    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                    • #11
                      Wonder if Sivyer was someone's attempt at Xavier?

                      OC

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                      • #12
                        Hi Little Nell,

                        Yes, I had trouble finding that one too! they've transcribed Pope as 'Poke' (us Pope's get called all sorts). Census reference is: Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1621; Folio: 369; Page: 28; GSU roll: 193522.

                        I've had a look at the three children born to Samuel and Hannah, and noticed that they were all baptised at a Wesleyan church in Ashford. Samuel and Charlotte's second child, Collins, was also baptised at a Wesleyan, so there may be a connection there. Not sure how popular this branch of worship was back then. I'm getting hopeful that it's the same Samuel

                        Thanks!
                        Karen

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                        • #13
                          Update: found 1851. Samuel's birthplace looked like Sussex Hinton and Hannah's like Greenwich.
                          ~ with love from Little Nell~
                          Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                          • #14
                            Hi OC

                            I'm liking your thinking! I've never thought of that before, it's certainly a possibility. Collins and Sivyer were odd names for the time

                            Many thanks
                            Karen

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                            • #15
                              1841 has Sivyer Pope b 1816 in Etchingham, Sussex and hundred its in is called Henhurst!
                              HO107; Piece 1108; Book: 6; Civil Parish: Etchingham; County: Sussex; Enumeration District: 7; Folio: 6; Page: 4; Line: 22
                              ~ with love from Little Nell~
                              Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                              • #16
                                death reg:

                                Samuel Sivyer Pope Age at Death:62 {Estimated Birth Year:abt 1811}
                                1873:Jan-Feb-Mar Maidstone Volume:2aPage:369
                                ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                                • #17
                                  Hi Little Nell
                                  Hunton would certainly make sense, it's not that far from Ashford. It's also just south of Maidstone, which is where Sivyer and his family finally settled
                                  thanks,
                                  Karen

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                                  • #18
                                    I see the baptism has him as Sivyer Samuel, but its likely he was named after his father and the Sivyer is a family surname from somewhere. Maybe the family called him Sivyer to differentiate him from his father.
                                    ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      IGI has lots of Kent & Sussex entries for Sevier, Syvier, Sevyer, etc
                                      ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                                      • #20
                                        Hi there
                                        Going back to my original train of thought, I'm wondering why Samuel gave his place of residence as Faversham. It's quite a distance from Etchingham to Faversham, by 1811 standards, I'm guessing that as a linen weaver he would have been quite poor so it would have been a bit of a walk! I would love to know what he was doing there, but I guess I'll never find that out!
                                        Thanks for all your help!
                                        Karen

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