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John Southall, Bigamist?

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  • John Southall, Bigamist?

    Hi,

    While delving into the past, I have come across a John Southall, my 3rd Great Grandfather, and basically, he is both confusing and very interesting.

    He married Susannah Wallis, sometime before December 1844. I have tried in vain to find a marriage certificate. I cannot find either of the on the 1841 Census, so do not know if they were married before or after 1841.

    Their last known child was Alfred Evans Southall, who was born in 1853. They are on the census living at Chapel St, Dudley. But then it becomes interesting. In 1861, John is living at Fleet Street, Burton on Trent, with a new wife, Mary Ann, born 1841 (some 20 years John's junior). Once again I cannot find a marriage certificate for them.

    The only problem is, Susannah is still alive, and living with a Howard Edward Evans, who she later married after John's death. I have the marriage certificate for that marriage.

    Does this mean that John married again while Susannah was alive?

    Or did he not marry either Mary Ann, or Susannah, as I can find no certificates? If he did not marry Susannah, why does she wait until after John's death to marry Howard Evans?

    Is Alfred Evans Southall the son of John, or Howard? - Actually, I think I will have to purchase the certificate for this one, but fought I might point it out!!

    Anyone have any ideas?
    Tippin
    Families Intrested in
    Archer (DBY), Bannister (SFK/STS), Br(o/a)mley (DBY), Darrall (SAL/WAR), Florence (STS), Freeman (WAR), Grimsdell (BKM/STS), Knight (WAR), Sheldrake (SKF), Simpson (LND/STS), Smith (SFK/WAR/WOR), Tatham (LND), Tippin(s) (HEF/WAR), Wagstaff (DBY/NTT), Whitefoot (SAL/WAR)

  • #2
    is he the John b abt 1892?

    How do you know Susannah's maiden name?

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh just realised, was it just from Sister-in-law in the house? Susannah could have been previously married, so then her name wouldn't be Wallis when she wed John. The birth cert for the son would confirm that too if Susannah is the mum.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Merry,

        I have the birth certificate of their daughter Mary Ann, who was born in December 1844. It just lists her mother as being Susannah Southall formerly Wallis. Susannah was born in 1818 at Tamworth, Staffords, the daughter of Thomas and Bircklayer and Sarah.
        Families Intrested in
        Archer (DBY), Bannister (SFK/STS), Br(o/a)mley (DBY), Darrall (SAL/WAR), Florence (STS), Freeman (WAR), Grimsdell (BKM/STS), Knight (WAR), Sheldrake (SKF), Simpson (LND/STS), Smith (SFK/WAR/WOR), Tatham (LND), Tippin(s) (HEF/WAR), Wagstaff (DBY/NTT), Whitefoot (SAL/WAR)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Tippin View Post
          Hi Merry,

          I have the birth certificate of their daughter Mary Ann, who was born in December 1844. It just lists her mother as being Susannah Southall formerly Wallis. Susannah was born in 1818 at Tamworth, Staffords, the daughter of Thomas and Bircklayer and Sarah.
          Oh right!

          I had noticed Susannah wasn't with her parents in 1841, off to have another look.......

          Comment


          • #6
            Isn't it annoying that neither FMP nor Ancestry thought it useful to transcribe the occupation field for the 1841 census? With so little information given, that wouyld have made life a lot easier in a lot of cases!

            Was John Southall a sawyer on the 1844 birth cert?

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Merry,

              Just checked that for you. He was a Sawyer, as he was on the 51 and 61 Census'.

              He died as a Rag and Bone man though - I can never get rid of the image of Wilfrid Brambell in Steptoe & Son!

              Actually, here is the information for the certs I have;

              BC - Mary Ann Southall - 9 Dec 1844 at 2:52AM - Kings Street, Dudley - Father: John a Sawyer - Mother: Susannah Southall formerly Walliss - Informant: Susannah Southall (Mother) (Her Twin sister was Martha, who died young)

              DC - John Southall - 10 Feb 1868 - Lichfield Street, Burton Extra - 66 years old - Occ: Collector of Rangs and Bones - Cause: Old Age, Exhaustin - Informant: Matilda Hilery of Fleet Street

              MC - Howard Edward Evans & Susannah Southall - 13 Jul 1869 - Christ Church, Burton on Trent (All info for Bride only) - age: 50 - status: Widow - Address: Burton on Trent - Father: Thomas Wallace (Builder) - Wit: William & Mary Ann Grimsdell

              I don't know if it holds any answers, but though I would included it with my request!
              Last edited by Tippin; 13-02-09, 11:17.
              Families Intrested in
              Archer (DBY), Bannister (SFK/STS), Br(o/a)mley (DBY), Darrall (SAL/WAR), Florence (STS), Freeman (WAR), Grimsdell (BKM/STS), Knight (WAR), Sheldrake (SKF), Simpson (LND/STS), Smith (SFK/WAR/WOR), Tatham (LND), Tippin(s) (HEF/WAR), Wagstaff (DBY/NTT), Whitefoot (SAL/WAR)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Tippin View Post
                He died as a Rag and Bone man though - I can never get rid of the image of Wilfrid Brambell in Steptoe & Son!
                lol!! I think he would have been a stronger looking type if he was a sawyer! Mind you, if illhealth stopped him from doing that work...........

                Comment


                • #9
                  They (John and Susannah) could have got married before the start of civil registration, in which case it could be at a church whose records aren't online, and it could well be that John didn't marry Mary Ann because he was already married.
                  KiteRunner

                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Not that it helps much, but there is a marriage for John Southall and SUSANNAH OR MRS SOUTHALL
                    About 1844 Of, Dudley, Worcester, England

                    It is a submitted entry, but it might be worth investigating.
                    Elizabeth
                    Research Interests:
                    England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                    Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I looked on the FreeBMD West Midlands site, but that didn't help either:

                      Elizabeth
                      Research Interests:
                      England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                      Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KiteRunner View Post
                        They (John and Susannah) could have got married before the start of civil registration, in which case it could be at a church whose records aren't online, and it could well be that John didn't marry Mary Ann because he was already married.
                        It did also occur to me that it is possible that John didn't marry Susannah because he was previously married!! lol Obviuously that would make it a bit odd if Susannah waited until after his death to marry again, but maybe she didn't want to admit to her new partner that she wasn't married to John? (or 101 other possibilities)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          1849 marriage, wrong surname:
                          SOUTHALL John JONES Susanna Tipton, St Martin (Pepper Box) Sandwell Register Office
                          Elizabeth
                          Research Interests:
                          England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                          Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1857
                            SOUTHALL John HODGETS Mary A Coseley, Christ Church
                            SOUTHALL John TORRINGTON Mary A Brierley Hill, St Michael
                            Elizabeth
                            Research Interests:
                            England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                            Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi all,

                              Thanks for having a look for me. I think I will have to go back to the drawing board with this one!

                              Tippin
                              Families Intrested in
                              Archer (DBY), Bannister (SFK/STS), Br(o/a)mley (DBY), Darrall (SAL/WAR), Florence (STS), Freeman (WAR), Grimsdell (BKM/STS), Knight (WAR), Sheldrake (SKF), Simpson (LND/STS), Smith (SFK/WAR/WOR), Tatham (LND), Tippin(s) (HEF/WAR), Wagstaff (DBY/NTT), Whitefoot (SAL/WAR)

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