Charles White - Super detective required

[vikki brace]

Hi everyone

I need people ideas and opinions please on My Charles White.

This man has caused me a huge head ache, Kiterunner kindly helped with my research on my turn at WDWTYA, I hoped with the release of the 1911 census my headache would be cured - HA, it made it worse.

What I know
Charles Walter White Basket Maker married Mary Ann Catherine Nuckley in 1874 - Father George Samuel White
Sophia White b.11 Jan 1879 to Charles White Basket Maker and Mary Ann Catherine Nuckley
1881 & 1891 census Sophia is living at home with her father Charles White Basket Maker at 27 Westcote Street
Sophia White married 1899 - her marriage cert lists father as Walter White Basket Maker.

Charles DOB and POB changes on each census, his marriage cert simply states Full Age
1881 - b.1852 Southwark
1891 - b.1831 Lambeth (trans) image age hard to read
1901 - b.1842 Homerton, London

There is a baptism for Charles Walter White on the the IGI in 1854 father George Samuel White and I have found the birth reg in the indexes for St Georges, Southwark

so with all this finding him in 1911 was never going to be cheap or easy - but I have found a likely candidate, He came up when I did a search for Charles White living with Mary White Occupation Basket.

Charles white age 60 married 35 yrs Occ Cane Worker POB Bermondsey
Mary Ann White age 61 married 35 years
5 children born
4 children alive
1 child dead

Hope it all makes sence Opinions greatly appreciated

[Elizabeth Herts]

Vikki, where were they living on the Censuses?

[vikki brace]

I knew I'd miss out something :o

1881 - 27 Westcote Street, Southwark, Surrey
1891 - 27 Westcote Street, Southwark, Surrey
1901 - 3 Gilm Street, Bermondsey, London

1911 - 272 Tabart Street, Southwark

[Elizabeth Herts]

There is a Walter White living in Southwark on the 1911 census.

However, he doesn't seem to have a Mary with him.

[Elizabeth Herts]

But there is a Walter White with a Mary Ann living in Lewisham, aged 60

[Elizabeth Herts]

How many children were you aware of before 1911?

[vikki brace]

You can see why finding him is proving costly

Because he goes by the name of Charles White and Walter White and can't decide when or where he was born

[vikki brace]

How many children were you aware of before 1911?

Sorry just catching up with you

I know of 4 children

Elizabeth born 1875
Sarah Ann born 1877
Sophia Agnes born 1879
James b1880

All still alive in 1901.

[Elizabeth Herts]

Vikki, I have a long list of people to look for on the 1911 census when it is cheaper to view! It's OK with certainties, but not so good otherwise!

[KiteRunner]

Oh, not him again, lol.

Have you looked at the birth place for Mary Ann to see if it matches yours? And do those numbers of children match what you know about your Charles and Mary Ann? (sorry, I see you've more or less answered the second question now!)

[vikki brace]

Vikki, I have a long list of people to look for on the 1911 census when it is cheaper to view! It's OK with certainties, but not so good otherwise!

Thats why I am leaving the Browns until then, but Charles White is my personal nightmare.

I can't find any strong possibles for him in 1871 or 1861 which might help to confirm or refute any of the later raised questions

[Elizabeth Herts]

I'm afraid I'm not getting any further with him, Vikki. :(

He could be Charles or Walter. She could be Mary or Mary Ann. The date of birth is uncertain, as is the place. Oh dear, I do sympathise.

[vikki brace]

Oh, not him again, lol.

Have you looked at the birth place for Mary Ann to see if it matches yours? And do those numbers of children match what you know about your Charles and Mary Ann? (sorry, I see you've more or less answered the second question now!)

:D I knew you'd remember him

Mary Ann is just as bad as her husband, can't decide where or when she was born either

index 3rd Qtr 1839 Bethnal Green, Middlesex
1841 - DOB 1839 Middlesex (in county)
1851 - DOB 1841 Christchurch, Middlesex
1861 missing
1871 missing
1874 marriage age Full !
1881 - DOB 1841 Southwark
1901 - DOB 1841 Bermondsey

[vikki brace]

I'm afraid I'm not getting any further with him, Vikki. :(

He could be Charles or Walter. She could be Mary or Mary Ann. The date of birth is uncertain, as is the place. Oh dear, I do sympathise.

Thanks for looking

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Was there an occupation for George Samuel White on the marriage cert for Walter Charles?

[vikki brace]

Sadly just Labourer .....

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Found a Cane Worker called Charles in 1861 (b 1845 St George in the East), but his father is Charles too. :(

Labourer is NOT what we want!

If dad's name really was George Samuel White there are not many likely deaths - have you looked in to those at all?

[vikki brace]

Ah drat, thats one more then I was hoping to find.

I know Labourer is so non-discript, at least Ag Lab you have a good idea what they were doing.

I decided that untilI can unravel Charles Walters story I didn't want to attemt the father

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Yes but if you look for the father you might find the son!

I did wonder if the other Charles I found was a cousin or something, but seems less likely as they were not all basket weavers.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Who were the marriage witnesses?