I need help please, I am stuck

[Britec]

Hi Everyone,

I need your help, I am trying to get started on my Phillips family tree.
Its not been easy but I have bits that might help me get started.

Charles William Henry Phillips died in ww1
I have his marriage cert and now have 1911 census after lots of money because they used 2 pp on the end of there name





Name: PHILLIPS, CHARLES WILLIAM HENRY
Initials: C W H
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment: London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers)
Unit Text: 1st Bn.
Age: 44
Date of Death: 03/05/1917
Service No: 203926
Additional information: Husband of Mary Amelia Phillips, of 28, Stibbington St., Somers Town, London.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Bay 9.
Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL


I have one of his sons birth certs...whos my grandad.



Thats all i have need help to get me started

[KiteRunner]

So what do you want to find out first, Brian? There are several different directions we could go in and it could get confusing if we follow all of them at once! Do you want to start by following Charles' line back?

[Britec]

Thanks for quick reply, yes thats the way I want to go back on charles william henry phillips

[KiteRunner]

Just having a quick look through the censuses for Charles, though, I can't see him anywhere. I was hoping to find Mary on the 1901 as Charles should be living nearby, but I think I've found Mary in 1901 and she isn't at Stanhope Buildings.

This looks like Mary's family in 1891, in St Pancras (sorry, can't read street name):
William Woodland Head M 25 Carpenter Kensal Green
Mary " Wife M 25 London St Pancras
Mary " Daur 6 " "
Caroline " Daur 4 " "
Euginie " Daur 2 " "
William Woodland Son 8 mo London St Pancras

then in 1901:
74 Grafton St., St. Pancras
Mary Woodland Head Widow 36 Charwoman London St Pancras
Do Do Daur S 18 Leather(?) Binder Do Do
Caroline Do Daur S 15 Domestic Servant Do Do
Jane Do Daur S 12 Do Do
Georgina Woodland Daur S 2 London St Pancras
Mafeking Do Daur S 10 mo Do Do
William Do Son S 11 Do Do
Albert Do Son S 9 Do Do
George Do Son S 6 Do Do
Harry Do Son S 5 Do Do


Caroline would be Carrie who was a witness at the wedding.

[Britec]

Thanks Mary I have the marriage.

[KiteRunner]

Googling suggests that Stanhope Buildings was (were?) in Stanhope Street, which might help us find him in 1901. If he was at that address on census night!

[Britec]

Hi Kite,

yeah sorry should of said I have got 1901 ans 1891 mary woodland.

Real hard to find charles phillips, look at marriage cert hes a widow, so hes been married before can't find that...thats why I am stuck, nothing is easy in my family names all common names :D

[Britec]

its all camden town & somers town area, st pancras & islington

[Mary from Italy]

In the meantime I've made a start on Mary Amelia Woodland, because she's easier to find than Charles, with having a less common name

Births Jun 1884
Woodland Mary Amelia Pancras 1b 23

from FreeBMD.

In the 1901 census she's living with her widowed mother Mary and 8 brothers and sisters at 74 Grafton St., St. Pancras. Her sister Caroline is probably the Carrie who witnessed the marriage certificate.

This is the reference - do you have a subscription to Ancestry?

Class: RG13; Piece: 137; Folio: 33; Page: 12

[Mary from Italy]

Oops, too slow

Thanks Mary I have the marriage.

Yes, sorry, I deleted when I realised that, The pages are loading slowly today, so I missed it.

[KiteRunner]

I have the reference numbers for Stanhope Buildings in 1901 but have to get off the computer now so not got time to check if Charles is there:

RG13; Piece: 131; Folio: 50; Page: 9 (and other pages around there).

[Britec]

Kite I typed that code in no phillips is there.

[samesizedfeet]

I've gone through all of Stanhope Buildings and there's no Phillips there. Also had a good look at anyone at no16 to see if it flagged up any similarities with birthplace etc but nothing jumped out

[LangleyValeSue]

I think I may have found him in 1891, living with his brother Thomas at 12 Russell ? (can't read next word) Buildings in Bermondsey. Charles, aged 18, is working as a carman.
RG12/376 Folio 123 page 50

I'm just going to check the 1881.

Sorry, I can't seem to find either Charles or Thomas on 1881 census.

[KiteRunner]

Thomas says he was born in Sittingbourne on the 1891 but I think that's a mistake because he says Westminster in 1901 (if I found the right one!)
RG13; Piece: 821; Folio: 7; Page: 6

[KiteRunner]

I'm getting confused with these, so just for reference, this is the 1891 entry:
Thomas Phillips Head M 34 Gas stoker Sittingbourne
Esther Do Wife M 27 Ramsgate
Thomas Do Son S 6 Scholar Do
Julia Do Daur S 9 Do Maidstone
Charles Do Brother S 18 Carman London

And Thomas's family in 1901 at Margate, Kent:
Thomas Phillips Head M 42 Hawker of Flowers Westminster London
Esther Do Wife M 38 Ditto Rye Sussex
Julia Do Daur S 18 Maidstone Kent
Tommy Do Son 16 Hawker of Flowers Ramsgate Do
Esther Do Daur 7 Margate Do

But now I'm having trouble finding the right Thomas on the earlier censuses - I found one born Westminster with father George, although the occupation was wrong for George and the age wrong for Thomas, and there is no Charles in that family. I'll keep trying...

[KiteRunner]

Oh, there's a Charles Phillips age 7 who's an inmate at the "Marylebone Schools" in 1881, born London - if that's him then it doesn't help much. Of course it may well not be him as there are loads of Charles Phillipses around. I couldn't see his first marriage under his full name but if he didn't bother with the middle names then it could be very difficult to find the right one.

[Britec]

Yeah its not easy to get started, such a hard name.

This looks like it could be him in 1901 census.

RG13; Piece: 193; Folio: 84; Page: 29.

Right name, right birth year, Job tram car driver = carman?

[Uncle John]

EDIT: having read the article I realise Woolwich trams were still horse-drawn in 1901.

A carman would have driven a horse and cart. He might have progressed to horse-drawn tram driver and by 1901 he was driving electric trams in Woolwich, thus:

Woolwich trams, buses, & trolleybuses

I can't quite make out what it says under Woolwich.

[KiteRunner]

If that's him in 1901, though, he says he is married, and the marriage to Mary was only a very few months later?