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Brickwall - Goodstein

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  • Brickwall - Goodstein

    Newbie to all this
    Trying to do my late wife's family tree, which she always wanted to do. Know I'm trying and have hit so many brick walls
    My wife's granddad, John Thomas Goodstein (JTG) born 28.6.1894-died 29.6.1973 so far so good.
    he married a Margaret Ann Baker 20.9.1919 on the marriage cert JTG's father is down as Edward Goodstein deceased.
    The nearest I have come is a Morris Goodstein on a 1901 census with children that fit Morris' profile. Now for the prob

    he was born in Germany c 1865 and married an Elizabeth ?? born in Ireland
    per the census.
    I can find no BMD's for either of these, Morris was dead at the time of the marriage according to the cert, or about thier parentage?
    I just can't get any further!

    Is thier anyone out there who could poss help me with this prob. please?
    Thank you for reading
    failsafe

  • #2
    Do you have John´s birth certificate?
    Elaine







    Comment


    • #3
      Welcome to the forum, Failsafe.
      Have you looked for the family on the 1911 census?
      KiteRunner

      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

      Comment


      • #4
        Presuming the 1901 census you have found is the correct one, then this looks like his birth registration (from freeBMD)
        John Thomas Goodsteen
        1894 Jul-Aug-Sep
        Manchester
        Volume: 8d
        Page: 284

        This would show his mother´s maiden name which might help find his parent´s marriage certificate.
        Elaine







        Comment


        • #5
          There's a possible marriage on FreeBMD for Morris GUTSTEINE and Elizabeth Hammons in Sep qtr 1890 Salford, vol 8d, p46. But you'd be better off getting JTG's birth cert first to confirm the names of both parents.
          Sue

          Comment


          • #6
            1911 Census John Thomas Goodstein living 14 Pilling St M/C with his mother Elizabeth who is head of the family and a widow therefore no info re years married.
            Moggie

            Possible death for Morris

            Morris Goodstone age 41 (1867) Q3 1908 Prestwich Lancs.
            Last edited by maudarby; 03-02-09, 18:53.

            Comment


            • #7
              Also on 1911 Manchester with JTG are:
              Elizabeth (Widow) b 1862
              Christorian F b1898
              Louis M b 1891
              Kat

              My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

              Comment


              • #8
                The John Thomas you found in 1901 had parents Morris and Elizabeth and siblings Louis and Christina, so it's obviously the same family that Katarzyna found in 1911.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I see John T had at least 2 siblings - are you in touch with any of them or their children, in case they can help?
                  Last edited by Mary from Italy; 03-02-09, 20:58.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank you all for taking a look at this thread.

                    I have his birth cert and mothers name on that is Hannon, Elizabeth.
                    Also have the marr cert uder that unusual name, could be that the registrar
                    spelt it how it sounded to him. On that one however his wife is named as
                    Hammons, she was 26 and Morris was 23 years of age. Marr. took place in Salford, Lancs. His father is down as Harris Gutstiene, traveller, elzabeths father Thomas Hammmons deceased, the 1911 census sounds promising since
                    the children are mentioned and seem to fit the 1901, except for a few typos.
                    bought the death one mentioned, died in a workhouse, and non of the details
                    fit.
                    So working on the 2 census' he must have died between 1901 and 1911, but still can't find him, the family were living in Manchester then.
                    Tried to find out whether he became a naturilised citizen with him being German, but couldn't work out the damn search engine. Have tried the police
                    for alien immigration records, but they only have them for those living in Salford. So another brick wall.
                    Don't know how either of them arrived from thier own country
                    and no idea at all on thier deaths. As Elizabeth was still alive in 1911, then I'm assuming that when she died on of thier children would have made sure that her name was spelt correctly, Goodstein.
                    Thank you for your interest, sorry it's so long but tring to fill all the facts.
                    Hope you wdo not lose interest, and thanks for all the replies
                    failsafe

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
                      I see John T had at least 4 siblings - are you in touch with any of them or their children, in case they can help?
                      I have no contact with any remaining members of the family, JTG daughter,
                      Mary (my late wife's mam) died in 1995.

                      Thank you all for making me feel welcomed
                      failsafe

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I've had a look at the National Archives site, but there are no naturalisation records for Morris in the online index; there may be something at Kew, but I don't think naturalisation would have been compulsory for a German citizen.

                        Quick search

                        The National Archives site (and Ancestry) have medal cards for John T and Louis, but there don't seem to be service or pension records for either of them. Louis was killed at Ypres, as you probably know.

                        CWGC :: Casualty Details

                        Not sure how easy it is to get German BMD records, and Irish ones can be a problem too, but I expect someone will be along sooner or later who knows more about German and Irish records than I do.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          As they married in 1890 have you been able to find them on the 1891 census?
                          I have had a quick look but zilch .
                          I will try again later unless someone else finds them first.
                          Kat

                          My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Here's the marriage, for reference:

                            Marriages Sep 1890
                            FILCOCK Martha Salford 8d 46
                            GUTSTIENE Morris Salford 8d 46
                            Hammons Elizabeth Salford 8d 46
                            REECE John Salford 8d 46

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I've been looking at 1891 too, but I can't see them, although you'd expect them to be in England, because Louis was born in the 3rd quarter of 1891 (assuming this is him):

                              Births Sep 1891
                              Goodstein Louis Prestwich 8d 256
                              Goodstein Louis Prestwich 8d 356

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
                                I've been looking at 1891 too, but I can't see them, although you'd expect them to be in England, because Louis was born in the 3rd quarter of 1891 (assuming this is him):

                                Births Sep 1891
                                Goodstein Louis Prestwich 8d 256
                                Goodstein Louis Prestwich 8d 356

                                Yes that's the child, but cant seem to find an 1891 census
                                failsafe

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  1891
                                  Try

                                  RG12/3261
                                  Folio 22, Page 41 = Cheetham

                                  Goldstein on Ancestry.
                                  Last edited by SuffolkSue; 03-02-09, 21:35.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    There are 3 births listed in Lancashire in FreeBMD after 1911 with the surname Goodstein and the mother's maiden name Hannon or Hannen, so I should think Hannon was the right spelling.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by SuffolkSue View Post
                                      1891
                                      Try

                                      RG12/3261
                                      Folio 22, Page 41
                                      Hi Sue
                                      I'm afraid I don't subscribe to A.....y or other sites, if its not to much trouble
                                      have you got any info that might prove useful from it, please?
                                      failsafe

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
                                        There are 3 births listed in Lancashire in FreeBMD after 1911 with the surname Goodstein and the mother's maiden name Hannon or Hannen, so I should think Hannon was the right spelling.
                                        Hi Mary
                                        Would you know thier names or even the qtr/year please?
                                        Thanks
                                        failsafe

                                        Comment

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