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  • help me continue my search please.

    Hi everyone, Thank you for reading what will probably be a long post. I’m hoping you may be able to helps me with my paternal family- I’ve hit the proverbial brickwall!!!
    The little information I have on this family is as follows-

    Thomas Hampshire was born in 1807 in Hornchurch Essex.
    • On the 1851 Census he is listed as a Chelsea Out Pensioner. He is married to Eunice ? born in 1821 in Cranham. They are living in Pell Street Hornchurch with their first child Frederick born in 1851 in Hornchurch.
    • On the 1861 Census Thomas W Hampshire, wife Eunice and children Frederick, Julia (b. 1852), Alice (b. 1855) and George (b. 1857) are all living on High st. Hornchurch where Thomas is Postmaster. Later on after the death of Thomas, Eunice and Julia took on this role.
    • By the 1871 Census Thomas has died and Frederick is no longer living at home.
    • Eunice died in 1876 age 55.
    • Frederick was admitted to Essex County Lunatic Asylum in 1871 and is discharged in 1907 to Bethnal House, a private asylum in London. He died in 1915 in the district of Colchester. He never married or had children.
    • Julia, too, is admitted to Essex County Lunatic Asylum between 1881census and 1901 census where she is listed as an inmate. Her death is registered in Colchester in 1914. She too never married or had children.
    • Alice (is my mystery woman) is on the 1861& ’71 census living at home, in 1881 she is a governess for the Thompson family living in Hunston, Stow in Suffolk.
    • George is the only one of Thomas & Eunice’ children to marry and produce children- Harold George, my grandfather who came to Australia married and had one child (my dad) and Gerald Ernest, who move to America with his wife (no children). George died in 1904.

    Questions- I have an idea what a Chelsea Pensioner is but are there any records kept and where?
    What is Eunice’s maiden name? By checking Freebmd I found a Thomas Hampshire and Eunice Kent married in 1849? (I lost my postit note) in Daventry. How handy is Daventry to Hornchurch/Cranham?
    Now for Alice- I cannot find her anywhere-did she marry, move overseas, continue as a governess, where and when did she die?
    I would really appreciate some help or clues to continue my search. I would be great to give dad some info on his family.
    Thankyou
    Kerryann
    "chasing dead rellies"
    GO STORM

  • #2
    How handy is Daventry to Hornchurch?

    No where near

    Not sure where Cranham is though. Essex?
    Jess

    Comment


    • #3
      Is he Thomas Wesley Hampshire per chance?
      Jess

      Comment


      • #4
        Jess, yes he is Thomas Wesley/Westley Hampshire. And Cranham is reasonable near Hornchurch in Essex. ... What have you found out, she types in great excitement????
        Last edited by kes_hill; 02-02-09, 05:58.
        "chasing dead rellies"
        GO STORM

        Comment


        • #5
          Not a lot!

          THOMAS OR WESLEY HAMPSHIRE
          Christening: 1807 Hornchurch, Essex, England

          Been having a tiddle about to see if he married as Wesley but cant see either a Wesley or a Thomas marrying a Eunice

          I think Julia's birth cert- which is on Freebmd -is the way to go

          Births Mar 1852
          HAMPSHIRE Julia Romford 4a 87

          Births Dec 1854
          Hampshire Alice Romford 4a 79
          Last edited by Jessbowbag; 02-02-09, 06:03.
          Jess

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          • #6
            Thanks Jess, I have the registration nos for all the children of Thomas and Eunice just havent sent away for any as yet. I think I will get the death certs for them (Fred, Julia and George) first as I'd like to find out what was the medical condition of Frederick and Julia to see them end up in Essex County Lunatic Asylum. I have contacted Essex County records office and they have no record of Julia and only the previoulsy posted info on Frederick. Julia's birth cert on freebmd is that online or does it have to be ordered? anyways thanks again Jess.
            Kerryann
            "chasing dead rellies"
            GO STORM

            Comment


            • #7
              His army discharge documents are held by the National Archives:

              Royal Hospital Chelsea: Soldiers Service Documents WO 97/699/62
              THOMAS HAMPSHIRE Born HORNCHURCH, Essex Served in 57th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 40 . 57th Foot: Gar - Jac Date range: 1825 - 1849.
              Source: The Catalogue of The National Archives

              Quick search

              You can request an estimate to get the file from the National Archives.

              Originally posted by kes_hill View Post
              Julia's birth cert on freebmd is that online or does it have to be ordered?
              You have to order it from the GRO using the reference number from FreeBMD. It'll cost £7.00, including postage to Australia:

              Registration Services - Certificate Ordering Service
              Last edited by Mary from Italy; 02-02-09, 06:57.

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              • #8
                Thanks Mary in Italy,
                I will order Thomas' military records as he may be the start of a long line of soldiers... George was a soldier, Harold served in France, and was injured during WW1 and the RIC in 1920 and my dad served in Vietnam in 1967-1968.
                Now to google his regiment and see what he was involved in!!!
                thanks again
                Kerryann
                "chasing dead rellies"
                GO STORM

                Comment


                • #9
                  This looks interesting, in 1841 there is an elder Thomas Hampshire with Elizabeth, next door to a Kent family in Hornchurch.

                  HO107/330/13 = Hornchurch
                  Folio 9, Page 13

                  It would be best to get one of the childrens birth certs to be certain of Eunices maiden name. It could be the right marriage you have found and there could have been reasons why they never married in Essex.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've been able to eliminate all the Alice's recorded in 1891 and 1901 as being born in Hornchurch around 1855. They were either single with a different surname or had been married before 1881 and could be seen on that census.

                    Obviously your Alice might have put a different place of birth, been mistranscribed, or been out of the country, or 101 other possibilities!

                    There is this death:

                    Deaths Mar 1884
                    Hampshire Alice 29 Saddleworth 9a 164

                    which is completely the wrong part of the country! I've looked at possible matches in 1881 and also marriages of men called Hampshire to women called Alice between 1881 and 1884. Although most events for people called Hampshire are down south, there is a smattering of possible events in Yorkshire (none in Saddleworth though), making it impossible to say if this might be your Alice. As she was a governess and single it's quite possible she moved from one part of the country to another.
                    Last edited by Merry Monty Montgomery; 02-02-09, 11:52.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The death certs may be disappointing with regard to the condition which led to them being confined in a mental asylum.

                      If, for example, they died of influenza, that is what the death cert will say and will likely make no mention of their mental condition. However, you won't know until you get the certs!

                      If they do prove disappointing, you may be able to get hold of their medical records for their time in the asylum. But be aware that medical diagnosis back then, particularly that to do with mental illness or disability, was very poor and many conditions which we can now name did not have a name back then.

                      Also be aware it may be something distressing, such as epilepsy. I mean distressing in the sense that they were locked up for the whole of their adult lives for something which can now be treated in the community.

                      OC

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                      • #12
                        Kes,
                        I live close to Hornchurch and Cranham - let me know if I can help with local knowledge or photos.

                        Cranham records are not on the IGI as far as I know tho I believe Romford library has copies of them on film.

                        Looks like there are a few 18th century Hampshires in Hornchurch on the IGI which could be yours.
                        Last edited by Lindsay; 02-02-09, 19:55.

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                        • #13
                          Thank you so very much for your help, I logged on earlier than usual today in the hope of a response....wow!! The good thing is you have all confirmed that i have been tackling my search in the correct manner.
                          SuffolkSue...I have a copy of the 1841 census that shows Thomas & Elizabeth Hampshire living next close to the Kent family. I have kept this to either prove or disprove in the future....as they say 'working from the known to the unknown'.
                          MerryMM...the record for Alice who died in Saddleworth is the wrong one...I have looked at this entry before....this Alice was born in Saddleworth in 1855 and is listed directly below my Alice in the 'births'....but thank you so much for trying.
                          OCH...I have been in contact with the records office in Chelmsford and the medical records for both Frederick and Julia no longer exist beyond his admission date and later discharge to Bethnal House. On the 1871 census he (Frederick) is 20 yrs old, is an inmate at Essex County Lunatic Asylum, and listed as a soldier and a lunatic...so I wonder if he may have been suffering from shell shock (ptsd).
                          Lindsay...thank you for your kind offer to take photos etc...my main interest would be the post office in High St Hornchurch if its still there as Thomas, Eunice and Julia were all postmaster/mistress for approx 20 years.
                          Once again thankyou very much for your time and help with my research.
                          Kes
                          "chasing dead rellies"
                          GO STORM

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Kes

                            Off topic, but I am interested in your Mearns from Scotland - Aberdeen, by any chance?

                            My grandmother had Mearns as a middle name and although I have gone back 5 generations, I can't find a link to Mearns. I am positive there must be a link as all her family and ancestors had "significant" middle names.

                            You can pm me if you don't want to answer on thread!

                            OC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi OC,
                              Yes my Mearns came from Aberdeen and Inverness-shire. My gg-grandmother was Jeannie Mills Mearns b 1847, her parents were George Mearns and Agnes Forbes, each born 1811. George was born in Broadford, Isle of Skye and Agnes in Skene, both died in Aberdeen where George was a dentist. He died in 1864 surviving Agnes who died in 1831. They had 7 children and lived in Dundee as well as Aberdeen. He began his working life as a cabinet maker, small machine maker journeyman and finally a dentist.
                              His parents were James and Mary Mearns (Gillis/Gillies). I believe George had a brother William who was witness to his marriage to Mary.
                              I understand the 'significant' middle name as some of my Scots ancestors were named after places close to home..Inverarity, Cramond..my all time fav name is my g-grandfather's David Robertson Kirkland Mearns Rogers....hows that for a mouthful!
                              Who knows if any of the above info will help- I hope so as I undestand the frustration of a brickwall or two!!!
                              Kes
                              "chasing dead rellies"
                              GO STORM

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Kes,

                                The post office today is in a fairly modern building so not terribly interesting.

                                I was trying to find out if it's still on the same site as the older building, and it seems not - I've been looking at an old local history book ('Our Old Romford and District' by E G Ballard if you need to know!) which gives a tour of the village using old photos from the late 19th early 20th century. There's only a brief mention of the PO and no picture but it seems that at that time it was further along the High Street. Unfortunately Hornchurch was 'improved' in the 1930s and again in the 1960s.

                                By the way, Pell Street which you mentioned in your first post is apparently an old name for the High Street.

                                Lindsay
                                Last edited by Lindsay; 03-02-09, 19:49.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  There are a couple of old photos of the High Street here, although I've had a quick look and I can't see a post office sign:

                                  Photos of Hornchurch, Grt London

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Thank you Lindsay for taking the time to look for me, I really do appreciate it. When I discover a new address I go to google maps type in the 'addie' and spy from above... Pell St was unknown by Google maps....so that mystery is now solved. Unfortunately there's no stopping progress. Thanks to progress, though, we get to communicate over the internet so much quicker than 'snail mail'. Mary thanks for the link, looking at the photos it was obvious that they lived above the post office and such a lovely village (then).
                                    "chasing dead rellies"
                                    GO STORM

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      kes put your name down for the weekly draw wdytya brenda xxx

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