Is this why he isn't talking to me?

[MarionH]

The new Ancestry Birth Registration has thrown up a very large cat into my life. I have been hunting for details of a cousin for a long time, all due to some kind of family rift. My Uncle Jim (mum’s brother) seems to have married, (I had very few details as Nan did not seem to approve and I believe did not attend the wedding).

I have spent years tracing Jim – he died in the war – his wife Kate remarried, I managed to get into contact with her new husband Charles. Sadly Kate passed away before she was able to contact me (about a month after I wrote to Charles), although he did advise me there was a child of Kate’s marriage to my Uncle. He passed along the name of my cousin, his wife’s name and their address and said he would love to hear from me.

At the time Charles and I had some discussion on the death of Jim – Charles was under the impression Jim was lost from a ship that sunk in the Bay of Biscay (sometime in 1943 I think). I checked on the CWGC and it was confirmed that he was killed in Dec 1942 at buried in Bone, Algeria – I have a photo of his grave from my grandparents.

So I sent everything I had to my cousin – and heard – nothing. I gave him the option of letting me know he wasn’t interested in hearing, sae etc. Couple of years later I tried again, copies of photos, drawing of my mother by his father – same options – nothing.

Have just done a search of the new Ancestry Registry and – for the first time – there is the birth of my cousin.

Small problem – his birth is registered in the Sep qtr in 1944. Uncle Jim died in Dec 1942.

Do I take it that this was an over length pregnancy, or would it possibly be the reason why I have never heard from him??

My “cousin” had married so surely he would have needed his birth certificate and would have known who his father was – if Jim wasn’t his father why didn’t Charles say so?

Any bright ideas, thoughts etc (apart from sending for the birth certificate which I am thinking of doing) would be appreciated!

(Names have been changed to protect the living although only one is still alive)

[Olde Crone Holden]

Marion

I would imagine that he is deeply embarrassed about his illegitimacy and does not wish to discuss it with you or anyone else. He is of an age when illegitimacy was shameful beyond the pale.

I am sure that he loved his mother and would feel it was disloyal to her to discuss her behaviour.

He hasn't replied because he is afraid that you are about to discover his "shameful secret", with all the mixed emotions that is stirring up in him.

OC

[MarionH]

That was my thought - but then must have known about this when I contacted his step father Charles - he would have had a copy of his birth certificate prior to his marriage I would have thought - and Charles was quite definate that he was looking forward to hearing from me. Something just doesn't seem to quite add up.

[Gwyn in Kent]

Perhaps Charles didn't know who the boy's father was?
He accepted him as Kate's son and might not have worked out the dates if he didn't know the date of death of Kate's husband.
Maybe he presumed that as a 'relative' your letter would be welcome and a link to his stepson's father.

[Olde Crone Holden]

No, I expect you were sprung on him, he agreed he would like to hear from you (as a cousin) and then had time to think of what you might have discovered in your family history researches.

However, whatever the reasons, he appears not to want contact after all, so I think sadly you have to leave it there.

OC

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I'm a bit confused as to who is who, but what if the 1944 birth cert does have the name of the man who died in 1942 recorded as father? It does happen (I mean, mum's lying, not extra-extended pregancy!). More likely though there is no father recorded and you wouldn't be able to tell from the index or from a short birth cert. If a short cert was all that anyone had then no one would be any the wiser if told "your father died in the war".

[Phoenix]

Families can be very hazy over dates when it suits them. Your cousin may have been told "your father died in the war" and even "your father died before you were born"
This man was never part of your cousin's family as such and would not have been very important to him.
Then, shortly after his mother's death he learns, possibly for the first time, that neither of his parents were exactly as they were presented to the world. And he isn't actually a blood relation of yours. Exactly this situation was suggested to a friend of mine and it was a double bereavement which took her years to come to terms with.

[Olde Crone Holden]

It isn't quite the same thing, but illustrates what happens when a well-meaning middleman introduces two sides of the family to each other, thinking both will be delighted.

When we moved to Cornwall, a distant relative of my OH wrote and said that his niece also lived in Cornwall and "was dying to meet you".

We duly invited them to dinner. It was a disaster, we were poles apart and had absolutely nothing in common. They invited us back for dinner and I think everyone concerned breathed a sigh of relief when that duty was done and we never met again (but exchanged Xmas cards of course!)

OC

[MarionH]

Gwyn - good possibility - I had two or three letters from him and nothing changed in the letters so his stepson could not have discussed it with him in detail.

OCH - yes I think after two non replies it is obvious he doesn't want contact - and I took precautions to know he would have received the items.

Merry - hadn't thought that he may only have had a short certificate - would he have been able to marry without a full certificate - is there any reason he would have ever needed a full certificate. It is possible his mother did "fabricate" his father we will be none the wiser but she may have put the real father's name on the certificate.

Phoenix - agreed - I think the more we delve into the past the more blase we get about base born, extra marital affairs, etc etc but for others it comes far more of a shock and very difficult to deal with. Being almost an "Orphan Annie" nowadays I was hoping this could be a cousin - doesn't look like it though!

Ah well - thank you everyone for your input - I shall remain Orphan Annie!!
Marion

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Merry - hadn't thought that he may only have had a short certificate - would he have been able to marry without a full certificate - is there any reason he would have ever needed a full certificate. It is possible his mother did "fabricate" his father we will be none the wiser but she may have put the real father's name on the certificate.

You don't need to provide a birth cert to get married in this country (at least you didn't when I married!)

I don't think in the past there was much call for anything more than a short cert - mum says when she worked in a wages office in the 1940's/50's people had to "prove" their dob and many people brought along a short cert as "proof" which was considered sufficient. Mum and the others in the office always presumed those with a short cert were illegitimate () and hiding the fact!

[Olde Crone Holden]

If she was not married to the father, she could not name him on the birth cert unless he was either at registration, or gave written permission in the form of an affidavit.

However, if she did not volunteer the information that she wasn't married to the father, she could have

1. Lied and said she was married. (to the father, but then the surname would be his of course)
2. Said nothing and allowed her dead husband's name to go on the cert by inference - the child of a married woman is legally assumed to be the child of her husband, unless someone says different.

OC

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

If she was not married to the father, she could not name him on the birth cert unless he was either at registration, or gave written permission in the form of an affidavit.

and in the unlikely event of them not being married but the father attending the registration or completing an affidavit, then there should be two index entries, one for each surname, with all other details the same (and same mum's miaiden name). Until yesterday you wouldn't have been able to search for this without knowing the other surname, but you can now on Ancestry's new 1916-1985 births - by entering the year and Q and the mum's maiden name and the child's first name......see if you get any matches

[Phoenix]

When I was born, you were given the short certificate but had to pay for the long one. There must have been plenty who never bothered to get a long certificate, simply because of the extra expense and never thought twice about it.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

When I was born, you were given the short certificate but had to pay for the long one. There must have been plenty who never bothered to get a long certificate, simply because of the extra expense and never thought twice about it.

That's the same now, Phoenix! I've never bought a long cert for either of my children, because I know what it will say!!

[Gwyn in Kent]

Marion
Don't give up hope of reply.
When the time is right for him the stepson may yet make contact.
Many years ago, when we first started researching, I wrote to a relative who I'd found, but never met. His parents though had visited my parents way back when they were newly weds...... He never replied.
We left it for a while, but when we came across some photos of his parents visiting my home, we sent them with a short letter of explanation.....no reply.
7 years later, out of the blue I received a letter from him !
We knew from other family members, that this part of the family had become estranged and it was only when he'd married and realised his bride had alot of family and he had virtually none, that he felt ready to reach out and get in touch.

[Sand Dancer]

Ref; Short birth certificates.
When I started doing my family tree my father showed me his birth and marriage certs and I took photocopies for my file. At that time I didn't realise his was a 'short' cert until I got further into the family history thing and started collecting them. So I asked Dad if he had another birth cert, and he said no, why would he need another? This (short) one was required by the school when his mother registered him on starting shool at age 5. And he thinks it was probably required another time to present to the authorities for his national ID card(?) in WW2.

He has never had any other cert. and didn't need to produce one when he married my mum (1952), nor presumably, did he need a full one to apply for his first passport (which would have been in 1948).

So, in answer to your question, it IS entirely possible for people, at least of an elder age group, to never have had anything other than a short cert, and, as in my father's case, not even realising it's a 'short' cert!!!

[MarionH]

Thank you everyone - you have all been very helpful.
This re-interest in my "cousin" was sparked by the new Ancestry 1916 - 1985 Births - and that is where I found his name (same as his "father" with his MMN a it should be (her maiden name at marriage). It was only when I realised that the dates didn't match!
I have quite come to terms with the fact that my "cousin" will probably never get in touch with me - that his right - I shall still be sad even though he may not be related.

What makes me really sad is the fact that I seem to be one of the last of the line as far as both of my parents are concerned.
My maternal grandmother had four children - two boys, two girls. One son died in service at the age of 17, one daughter died (unmarried) at 35 from meningitis, one son (the one I thought my "cousin" came from, died in the war (no other children!) and then there was Mum - with me - and only me!
On Dad's side there were (again) four children - three sons and one daughter. Daughter married at 78 (no children!!), one son married with no children, one son married -had three children - two of which died without issue - third one (my only remaining cousin) is married - with no children, fourth son - my father - with me!!
As I said - "Orphan Annie"!! no - no feeling sorry for myself - just giving the reasons why I was so hoping I had found a second cousin!!!
Again - many thanks for your help - isn't genealogy fun!! You meet such nice people!
Marion

[MarionH]

Update - I decided to send for the birth certificate after all (killing cats and all that jazz!) - it came today - there is no father on the certificate. His mother registered the birth and she was living in the next county from where she was born and married.
Funnily enough her son's birth is two days after my own!
So there is an end of it - my cousin aint my cousin - sleeping dogs are now resting.

[Kit]

It's good to know one way or another Marion but it is a shame that things didn't work out differently.

[MarionH]

Agreed Kit - I would still be happy if he wanted to get in contact but I doubt if that will happen. As you say - it's resolved - there are far too many loose ends in genealogy! I've got another major one coming up - this one is even closer to home concerning my grandfather - I've yet to sort that one out in my head yet! That may have to pop up in another thread if I can't sort the knots of the string out! We really all must be masochists!:(