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Random musings about my GGG grandmother....any thoughts please?

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  • Random musings about my GGG grandmother....any thoughts please?

    My 3x G grandmother, Margaret TIVERS (maiden name HARRISON?, place & date of birth unknown) was widowed in 1838 when George Gideon Gustavus TIVERS died in Winchester, Hampshire aged 24. Their son, Charles George, was born (according to censuses) in Camden Town, London in 1839. On Family Search there is a listing for a marriage for a George TIVER to Margaret HARRISON on 17 July 1836 at St Anne, Soho.


    George Gideon Gustavus's brother, Charles Cleveland Carter TIVERS, was living in the Hersham, Surrey area in 1841, but the census for that area has been destroyed. I can only assume that Margaret & Charles George were living with him there, as I can't find them on 1841 census. In 1851 Charles George is shown living with his uncle Charles Cleveland Carter and family.

    Margaret TIVERS apparently remarried in Manchester in September qtr 1844, but I there doesn't appear to be a groom listed on Free BMD. I'm almost certain it is my GGG grandmother as TIVERS is such an uncommon name. I will send off for the certificate, probably next month if finances allow.

    I'm just wondering why, when she was widowed in 1838 in Winchester, Hants and gave birth to my GG grandfather in London in 1839, would she marry in Manchester.

    I have found the ref. For George G G TIVERS death, so I think I may send off for that certificate first, although it probably wouldn't give me any more info about Margaret.

    The TIVERS name is mistranscribed so many different ways on the various censuses and I've tried all the ways I can think of. LIVERS, SIVERS, TEVERS, LEVERS, TAVERS etc. etc. but I can't find Margaret or Charles George on 1841.

    Has anyone any suggestions or thoughts please?
    My avatar is my Great Grandmother Emma Gumbert

    Sue at Langley Vale

  • #2
    My brain is still with my Amelia, so take care with my ramblings....lol

    Have you found the son in 1851 or later???


    Sorry just answered my own Q by re-reading.

    Comment


    • #3
      Sue

      Re the 1844 marriage. The listing on FreeBMD (Vol 20 page 350) puts it in with a load of Liverpool marriages. I had a look at the image on Ancestry and it says Vol 7 page 350 but the image looks like a typed transcription of the original. If you put that vol and page on FreeBMD you get no matches. I'm sure there is a mis-transcription somewhere but I don't know where.

      However on the beta Family search there is a Margaret Tivers in Lancashire in 1841 aged 13. She could be the one that got married.
      FamilySearch Record Search

      I don't have findmypast to see the image and I can't find it on Ancestry. I'm not sure this is any help but I think you may have trouble ordering the cert with those refs. Lancs BMD haven't transcribed it yet either
      Jackie

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      • #4
        Margaret's marriage had 6 brides and 3 grooms. Great!!!!!

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        • #5
          Jackie....that makes more sense.

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          • #6
            Sue.................have you trawled for a death for Margaret between 1841 and 1851?

            Comment


            • #7
              Jackie
              That's very strange for a Margaret Tivers to be shown on Family Search when I couldn't find her on Ancestry. I haven't come across a TIVERS family either in Lancashire or Yorkshire, they were all 'southerners'. I'll investigate further.

              Libby

              I haven't trawled for Margaret's death - I never thought to do that :o
              Why can I always think of suggestions for others, but not for my research.

              Thank you both for your thoughts. You've both given me more options to try.
              My avatar is my Great Grandmother Emma Gumbert

              Sue at Langley Vale

              Comment


              • #8
                Sue....................don't worry about it. I post a question and someone gives me an idea and I feel like an idiot because the answer was so obvious.

                Sometimes our own trees are just too close to us.

                ******thought***maybe we should put all trees in a hat and do the one we pull out****lol

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                • #9
                  Redacted

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                  • #10
                    Looking closely at the Ancestry image for Margaret TIVERS in Lancashire in 1841 the surname seems to be TURNER. HO 107/504/11 The image is a bit clearer on Ancestry than it is on Find My Past.

                    Oh well, back to the drawing board
                    My avatar is my Great Grandmother Emma Gumbert

                    Sue at Langley Vale

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Penelope

                      Cleveland seems to be a family name throughout the generations. There seems to be at least one in every generation, both as a first name and a second or third. I think the last one was one of my Grandad's brothers - I vaguely remember an Uncle Cleve - but there may have been more since. I haven't found it used as a surname in the family yet, but it must have come from somewhere. As I said, all my TIVERS come from down south, mostly in Somerset, but I think they probably originated in Ireland. The furthest north I have them is Mid Wales! There are also some in South Africa, but I haven't attempted those yet
                      My avatar is my Great Grandmother Emma Gumbert

                      Sue at Langley Vale

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The GRO index page is a typed one. As the original index pages for 1844 were handwritten, this means it has been copied at a later stage and errors have crept in. The volume number 7 is wrong for Manchester, but looking at FreeBMD's page range information for that quarter, vol 7 page 350 would be Winchester, not Manchester. The person who typed the index up must have misread the original entry.

                        There are 7 people listed for Winchester /7/350 on FreeBMD and a bride seems to be missing, so it looks as though your Margaret fits in somewhere here:
                        Arthur Henry Colburn
                        Isaac Flower
                        Henry Holt
                        Emma Lamb
                        Eliza Salmon
                        Ann Stratton
                        William Walker
                        KiteRunner

                        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks Kite. That would make more sense. I'll check later censuses against the grooms listed on that page to see if any have Margaret as a wife.

                          Thank you again.
                          My avatar is my Great Grandmother Emma Gumbert

                          Sue at Langley Vale

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Looking at the 1851 census it looks as though:


                            Isaac Flower married Ann Stratton

                            Henry Holt married E.... (so Emma Lamb or Eliza Salmon)

                            William Walker - a bit too common


                            but... here on the 1861 is Arthur Henry Colburn with a wife called Margaret!

                            Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 692; Folio: 69; Page: 7


                            and the 1851: Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1674; Folio: 203; Page: 5

                            Remembering: Cuthbert Gregory 1889 - 1916, George Arnold Connelly 1886 - 1917, Thomas Lowe Davenport 1890 - 1917, Roland Davenport Farmer 1885 - 1916, William Davenport Sheffield 1879 - 1915, Cuthbert Gregory 1918 - 1944

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Gosh Tom, that was quick
                              I think that may be the one. Margaret was apparently born in the West Indies (Honduras in 1851 census) which would explain why I couldn't find a birth for her in England.

                              They are living in St Maurice, Winchester, which is where her first husband George TIVERS was born, and where his mother still lived. Strange how her son Charles George TIVERS isn't with her though, he would only have been 12 or 13.

                              Thank you.
                              Last edited by LangleyValeSue; 28-01-09, 12:16.
                              My avatar is my Great Grandmother Emma Gumbert

                              Sue at Langley Vale

                              Comment


                              • #16


                                I saw that and thought I would just mention this:

                                My gg grandmother was born in Ranikhet in INDIA, but sometimes she is recorded as being born in the West Indies, so just bear that in mind when you start looking for her. It would be interesting to know what her father did for them to be out there in the early 1800s, and her marriage cert would confirm whether or not she is your one by being a widow, it would then also confirm the marriage you have found is hers (her dad's name will be Harrison) and it will also tell you what his job was.

                                Let us know if you do buy the cert

                                Remembering: Cuthbert Gregory 1889 - 1916, George Arnold Connelly 1886 - 1917, Thomas Lowe Davenport 1890 - 1917, Roland Davenport Farmer 1885 - 1916, William Davenport Sheffield 1879 - 1915, Cuthbert Gregory 1918 - 1944

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                                • #17
                                  I have a couple of people in my tree born on St. Croix, Danish West Indies. In one census it's given as Santa Cruz.
                                  Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                                  • #18
                                    I spent ages looking for my grandmother's marriage. In the end I found my grandmother from Somerset married my grandfather from Gloucestershire in Surrey because her elder sister organised the wedding. Her mother died when she was 18.

                                    It is always worth looking for other family members if you find an event taking place a long way from where you expect.
                                    Anne

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                                    • #19
                                      In this case they did actually get married in Winchester, though - the index has just been copied out wrongly.
                                      KiteRunner

                                      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Name George TIVERS Date 17 Jul 1813 Aged 36 Place Axbridge Description St John the Baptist Denomination Anglican County code SOM

                                        Do you have this one from the NBI
                                        Anne

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