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  • Register Offices

    If you visit a Register Office, can you look up details for birth certificates and find the correct one, without having to order the numerous certs you may find for people with the same name?

    For instance I have ordered a number of certs relating to one name because I am not sure what year (within a period of 4 years) or quarter they were born in and still not found the correct one.
    Fi, aka Wheelie Spice

    Why not learn British Sign Language: BritishSignLanguage.com; An Online Guide to British Sign Language

  • #2
    If you have some qualifying info then the registrar may be willing to look through the registers for the correct cert. Depends when/where you are talking about. Some London offices don't do family history requests.

    Comment


    • #3
      Although there is no ACTUAL law which prevents you looking through the registers, I am afraid that you can no longer do this.

      The clerk or registrar will cite the Data Protection Act, or privacy laws etc and I am sure you would have to legally challenge them in order to be able to do it.

      However! A bit of charm never hurt. If you explain your dilemma and have details of the certs you want checking, they MAY be prepared to look for you and identify the correct certificate which you can then purchase at the usual price.

      I have used this system very successfully by email.

      Years ago, I was allowed to plod through a register for myself - the registrar "knew" me and was popping in and out all the time I was looking. Next time I went, it was a no no, because someone had either stolen, or defaced a register, can't remember which now!

      OC

      Comment


      • #4
        You wouldn't be allowed access to the actual certificates but one solution is

        Order a certificate from the local office, and specify details such as the name of a parent (or parents) as checking points.

        A local office won't charge extra for checking the details and if they can't find a match then they won't issue a cert but you won't pay anything.

        Don't quote a GRO ref, it's useless to the local office as their index numbers are different but give as much detail as you can relating to the date and place of birth.
        http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

        Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
        My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
        My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

        Comment


        • #5
          what I've found is that if you frequent your local registry office they are more than helpful. Certainly the Leeds registry office is marvellous - would recommend them to everyone.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks everyone.

            I have tried the email approach with the RO in question saying I was not sure of exact year but with a 4yr time span (giving years) and also giving names of parents with mothers maiden name and they replied saying they needed year, quarter and district to search.

            I have emailed back I am willing to pay for the search so I hope that helps them.
            Fi, aka Wheelie Spice

            Why not learn British Sign Language: BritishSignLanguage.com; An Online Guide to British Sign Language

            Comment


            • #7
              I hesitate to suggest this, and please don't take offence, but would it be worth mentioning your mobility?
              Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
                If you have some qualifying info then the registrar may be willing to look through the registers for the correct cert. Depends when/where you are talking about. Some London offices don't do family history requests.
                My local one is really un-helpful, they always want to know the address at birth, and mothers & fathers surnames & DOB!!....If I knew that I wouldnt want to order the certificate...:D The GRO reference numbers mean nothing to them, they search in a totally different way..
                Rosi



                We are the famous CFC

                Comment


                • #9
                  Have you tried asking them if they have there own website which quite a few do now know Middlesbrough does and Stockton ;;;
                  borobabs passed away March 2018

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Excuse me while I quietly explode, this is another of those myths perpetuated in family history circles by those who should know better.

                    Every Act of Parliament concerning the registration of Births, Deaths and Marriages has allowed for searches to be made in the registers.
                    The 1836 Act for registering Births, Deaths, and Marriages in England puts it this way-
                    “XXXV. And be it enacted, That every Rector, Vicar, or Curate, and every Registrar, Registering Officer, and Secretary, who shall have the keeping for the Time being of any Register Book of Births, Deaths, or Marriages, shall at all reasonable Times allow Searches to be made of any Register Book in his keeping, and shall give a Copy certified under his Hand of any Entry or Entries in the same, on Payment of the Fee herein-after mentioned ; (that is to say,) for every Search extending over a Period not more than One Year the Sum of One Shilling, and Sixpence additional for every additional Year, and the Sum of Two Shillings and Sixpence for every single Certificate.”

                    The public had access to the registers of Births, Deaths and Marriages held by Registrars for about 139 years until circa 1975 when a direction from the Registrar General prevented this access. Some registrars still comply with the law and allow members of the public to make searches in the registers, many have stopped searches being made by members of the public.

                    The Regulations of Registrars of Marriages, the instruction book for
                    Registrars to back my assertions that search may be made in registers by members of the public.
                    HISTPOP.ORG - Browse > TNA Registration > Instructions to Registrars of Marriages, 1875   39 of 68 in section

                    On page 32 this states-
                    "The Registrar must, on application made to him at any reasonable time, and on payment to him of the Search Fee or Fees stated below, allow the Register Book or Books in his custody to be searched, or himself make the Search required, for any Entry of Marriage. All Searches must be made by himself or in his presence; and he must prevent any injury to the Register Books or the alteration of any part of an Entry therein.”

                    Halsbury's Laws of England, Fourth Edition 39(2) paragraph 524 states –

                    “Searches at a Registrar’s Office.
                    Every registrar must, at any time when his office is required to be open for the transaction of public business, allow searches to be made in any register of live births or deaths and register of marriages in his keeping and must on payment of the proper fee give a certified copy under his hand of any entry in them. The right of the public to search the registers of births and deaths cannot be taken away by the Registrar General under his power to make regulations.

                    After checking all this out I contacted the Registrar General, Karen Dunnell, (January 2007) and asked her why access was being refused. In her reply she confirmed that the public do have a right to search registers in the keeping of Registrars.

                    Any Registrar who refuses to allow you to search any register in their
                    keeping (with the exception of the still-birth register) is acting
                    unlawfully.
                    Cheers
                    Guy
                    Guy passed away October 2022

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Guy - thank-you for that information very useful and relevant especially given that to get married the details of the marriage taking place will have to have been posted in someway publicly previously.

                      I'm afraid that my local registery office was not very helpful recently and even though I had the year, 1/4 and both groom's name and surname (v.popular) and brides name and surname (v.rare) they were not inclinded to help and told me to come back in two weeks - how come heir hunters get certs the same day?
                      Bo

                      At present: Marshall, Smith, Harding, Whitford, Lane (in and around Winchcomb).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'd been waiting for your post Guy.

                        The trouble is, just because a law says something, doesn't always mean a result can be achieved. (not all of us have your tenacity!!)

                        It is 20 years since I asked to look at the records at Southampton register office and at that time it was £19 for two hours searching. I dread to think what they are charging now!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
                          I'd been waiting for your post Guy.

                          The trouble is, just because a law says something, doesn't always mean a result can be achieved. (not all of us have your tenacity!!)

                          It is 20 years since I asked to look at the records at Southampton register office and at that time it was £19 for two hours searching. I dread to think what they are charging now!
                          Perhaps you should read my website at
                          Halsbury's Laws of England

                          Section 3.
                          You find find a pleasant surprise. ;)
                          Cheers
                          Guy
                          Guy passed away October 2022

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Guy View Post
                            Perhaps you should read my website at
                            Halsbury's Laws of England

                            Section 3.
                            You find find a pleasant surprise. ;)
                            Cheers
                            Guy

                            lol!! Well, I'm certain it wasn't as long ago as before 1968 that I was told £19 as I wasn't into family history then!!

                            Should I ever need to consult the local office for info I will be sure to take a copy of that legislation with me! When they told me £19 it didn't occur to me to ask if that was a lawful request for money!!

                            Thanks very much

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I would just like to say a big boo hoo to Liverpool Register Office.

                              Respite offering to pay for the search they still wont help me.

                              This is what they said: "The information we need to search for any event, year, quarter and district as explained in my previous email can be found on The St Catherine’s Index which you can view in a main library in your area or on a pay to view site - www.findmypast.com

                              As Liverpool Register Office is not a research agency, unfortunately we do not have the facility to provide the information for you."

                              Now isnt that strange. If I tell them the year, quarter and district, they will search, find and send me the cert when I pay them. So how do they do that if they dont have the facility to do it.

                              The St Catherine's Index is the thing that list all BMD from 1837 isnt it and is the same as that on the GRO site and Ancestry?

                              If I am wrong I would be interested to know about it.

                              They must have a problem as I sent a separate email about the burial of the same rellie and they still have not replied about that one.

                              In the meantime during the last week I have received 2 certs from the GRO for the same rellie and neither are correct.

                              All I say is good luck to anyone with a popular surname who was born or died in Liverpool.

                              Thank you to all your comments and advice on this thread. Much appreciated.
                              Last edited by Fi & Lilly; 28-01-09, 19:23.
                              Fi, aka Wheelie Spice

                              Why not learn British Sign Language: BritishSignLanguage.com; An Online Guide to British Sign Language

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Fi, yes, when they say the "St Catherine's Index", they do mean the GRO index which is on FreeBMD, ancestry, findmypast etc. Although I think some Liverpool stuff is now available on Lancashire BMD. I think what they are saying is that if you can give them the quarter and district, their search won't take too long whereas if they had to search all their districts over a few years it would take ages. As for burials, you would have to try a record office as the register office holds no burial info.
                                KiteRunner

                                Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Fi & Lilly View Post

                                  As Liverpool Register Office is not a research agency, unfortunately we do not have the facility to provide the information for you."

                                  Now isnt that strange. If I tell them the year, quarter and district, they will search, find and send me the cert when I pay them. So how do they do that if they dont have the facility to do it.
                                  The registrars are as they point out are not a research service, primarily their duties are there for the recording, copiling and storage of bmd registers, they also have to provide a safe enviroment to ensure the registers are kept in good condition.

                                  There is a difference between searching for a particular document within a four year span and locating a register entry from a known year and quarter.

                                  Just consider how large the population is/was within the district, how many births were registered in a quarter, in a year and over that four year span, that amounts to thousands of records across 16 quarters. You only want one of those documents but it would mean a substantial number of hours to check the registers and find any that match your particular search criteria, it's something that isn't justifiable for one single document.

                                  By narrowing down the timeframe to a particular quarter the search is far less protracted, primarily because locating a particular register is more straightforward and the physical number of entries to check through is greatly reduced. Whilst they would still have to do an element of searching it is a different scenario to that of a records office where researchers are employed to provide a research service.
                                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                                  Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                                  My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                                  My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I am quite surprised (well, no actually, I'm not) because most of the local register offices used to offer three year searches for £11.50 including a copy of the correct cert if they found it.

                                    The reason I'm not surprised after all is because I know that local ROs are now being run on an absolute skeleton staff. My local RO is now only open BY APPOINTMENT and if you make an appointment, a registrar from another town attends.

                                    My local RO used to employ three full time staff and one part timer.

                                    I saw the writing on the wall when the DOVE project was trumpeted. The aim is eventually to close all local ROs "because it will all be on the computer". The local Registers will be put into cold storage and that's the last we will ever see of them.

                                    If we want a cert we will have to get it from the GRO, with all the drawbacks that entails, including another layer of errors and worse, no record at all.

                                    *starts ranting*

                                    OC

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      rant away OC

                                      In view of the fact that reg offices are funded by the council and the preference for said councils to sub contract everything possible and centralise whatever is left it's a wonder that there are still outlying offices at all.

                                      I'm lucky that i have rellies in Lincolnshire, everything is centralised but great efforts have been made to promote the issue of certificates as a result and although it isn't a research service as such they do employ staff who are there solely to retrieve historic registers, the county council always ask for the quarter and year with an application but in practice they will search +/- 1 year if needed without charging.

                                      They have been pretty forward thinking, the small local offices work the part time scenario you mention with visiting registrars and submit events online to the central office but there has been a benefit in family history research terms.

                                      I have heard stories about unsatisfactory and delayed service from Liverpool in the past which is a shame but to a point it's understandable given the financial situation within that authority, being so close to the GRO family history and the registration service is not high on the priority list compared to other services.
                                      http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                                      Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                                      My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                                      My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        A word of praise for Woodbridge in Suffolk, High Wycombe in Buckinghamshire, and Wandsworth in London:
                                        each of them has been brilliantly helpful when I have written to them saying, for instance, could you tell me if the death registration for ..... is for the child of ....... and ......

                                        I explain that I do not need to send for a certificate, I just need to identify the person / fit him / her into my family, having found the person in a census or on free BMD.

                                        I do thank them ever so much.
                                        Joy

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