A little confused about gg grandfather's background

[BendyCowgirl]

Here's the thing, I don't know if there's a logical explanation for this but my gg grandfather was born in Chelsea, one of the wealthiest parts of London yet he spoke with a strong east end accent and his father was a bricklayer...

...am I missing something?

[Margaret in Burton]

When was this?

My grandad's elder brother was born in Mayfair.

His dad was a butler and his mother a housemaid in service. :D

[BendyCowgirl]

He was born in 1855, one would have thought he'd be hobnobbing with the likes of Oscar Wilde lol.

[Cloggie]

This site might provide some useful info: The History of the Royal Borough

For example, this page The Needy Poor, explains that not all of Chelsea was wealthy: "Chelsea also had its fair share of slum areas, in particular Turks Row just off Lower Sloane Street, the Draycott Avenue/ Cale Street area, the western reaches of the Thames and the World’s End."

[BendyCowgirl]

OK thanks I'll have a butchers at that. I realise what my pervious comment sounded like btw. I'm actually very glad he wasn't 'hobnobbing' with Oscar Wilde otherwise I wouldn't be here.

[Uncle John]

And to take a step forward into modern times, there was a gerrymandering scandal involving Lady Porter, where ward boundaries between rich and poor parts were shifted to improve election prospects.

[Peppie]

That was Westminster Uncle John, she also sold off the cemetries and a load of social housing.

[Jean and Tonic]

......'And to take a step forward into modern times, there was a gerrymandering scandal involving Lady Porter, where ward boundaries between rich and poor parts were shifted to improve election prospects.'


Where I live, they're still doing that today Uncle John.

Jean

[Uncle John]

That was Westminster Uncle John, she also sold off the cemetries and a load of social housing.

True, but another borough with a very diverse social mix. That's today's senior moment used up. :D

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

We may think of Chelsea as being a rich area now, but not all of it was in Victorian times. Booths poverty map:

Charles Booth's 1889 Descriptive Map of London Poverty

shows large areas of middle class in the 1890's with a fair sprinkling of poorer families. I would think the further you go back the larger the poor population would have been. Pimlico shows as having more streets with poorer families than the rest of Chelsea.

Having said all that - no, Chelsea and Pimlico were not anywhere near as poor as many other areas of London.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Maybe he was born in Pimlico, but wasn't brought up there?


...............Or maybe he wasn't born there?!!

[BendyCowgirl]

Maybe he was born in Pimlico, but wasn't brought up there?


...............Or maybe he wasn't born there?!!

well it said he was born there on the census and then when we did a search for him in the military records a guy of the same name came up as being born in Pimlico. Either he was born in a working class area ( I don't suspect he was born in poverty as such) or something odd is going on which might exlpain why we didn't find him on an earlier census (name change ect). Also when he moved to Cardiff he lived in a middle class area. The part of Canton he moved to is the posh part...was then and still is. Probably more so then. Where did he get the money?

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I'm struggling a bit as you have a lot of threads about the same person with little bits of info on eact one, so if I can confirm we are talking about John William Gardiner, sometimes known as William b abt 1855 in Pimlico/Chelsea who only appears on the census after his marriage? I've forgotten who that was to or when it was. I remember they had two sons in the Cardiff area. Must have married before 1891?? So it's the 1861, 1871 and 1881 he's missing from?

If the navy record is for the same man then he will have been the person giving the personal details, so it's not surprising it's the same as that found on the census (whether the info is right or wrong is another matter!)

I've just seen an article in the Western Mail (Saturday, September 1, 1894; Issue 7889) about an attempted murder in Cardiff where one John William Gardiner gave evidence about hearing the report of a revolver! I wonder if this was your relative?!!

[BendyCowgirl]

yes the ame guy I'm on abut but I'm wondering this time why he landed up in Canton coming from such a working class background

[Rosi Glow]

All my Nans family were born in Chelsea, they are on the 1901 census but they weren't rich, they were working class mostly working in service or were carrage drivers & stable workers.

[claretaylor22]

Do you know which road in Canton? Am curious as I lived there for a couple of years and am still in Cardiff, if any local research is needed to help let me know!

Clare

[BendyCowgirl]

have sent you a pm clare, thank, oh and thanks merry for the newspaper article.