Cousin, but mother too old for birth

[Margaret]

Just checking on the 1911 Canadian census for a Frank and Lulu McMaster - found them with a cousin: Josephine Oliver, born August 1904. I know that Lulu had an aunt Elizabeth who married a William Oliver, but Elizabeth was born around 1851 and her two children that I have found were born in 1875 and 1876.

Could someone please check and see if they can find a Josephine born around this date, so I can try and figure out how she is related. Of course there is always the possibility that Frank has Oliver cousins too.

Thank you.

[maudarby]

Hi Margaret
Are we looking in Canada or the U K ?
Moggie

[Olde Crone Holden]

Cousin may be a loose description of a second cousin perhaps?

OC

[Margaret]

In Canada. I'm also having trouble locating William and Elizabeth on this census - there is a couple that I found but it just has her middle name with no info, and the William isn't the right age.

[Margaret]

I was thinking that too OC, but of the two girls - one died in 1882 and the other married in 1902, so presumably any child would have the married name.

[KiteRunner]

Maybe there were other connections with the Oliver family too?

[Margaret]

Kite, I haven't come across anything yet, but was hoping if I could find out who Josephine's parents were, that might give me a clue where to look next.

[KiteRunner]

What does it say for Josephine's birthplace on the census?

[Margaret]

Sorry for the delay Kite - had to go grocery shopping.

The image says she was born in Ontario. The census reference said it was taken in the Village of Havelock, District of E Peterborough.

[KiteRunner]

There is a Stella Josephine Oliver born 31 Aug 1903 listed in the Ontario births on ancestry - township Sidney, county Hastings, parents Willis Wilbert Oliver (born Ontario) and Jennie Knowles (born England). The birth seems to have been registered many years later, so the year of birth could well be wrong, as indeed could be any or all of the other details!

In 1901 Willis Oliver says he was born 30 Oct 1874 Ontario and wife Jennie born 15(?) Feb 1875 England. Son Raymond born 19 Aug 1897 Nova Scotia, and son (Clarence) Randall born 26 Mar 1899 Ontario. The Ontario births also lists a Gladys Irene born 18 Aug 1901. I'm just putting all this down in case it helps link them to your tree or rule them out, plus to help in searching for this family in 1911 to see if Stella Josephine is with them.

Okay, in 1911 (Canada) there is a William Oliver age 70, born England March 1841, farmer, wife Eunice born Feb 1853 Ontario, and he has a granddaughter Gladys Oliver born Aug 1901 Ontario. Could he be the same William Oliver, with a second wife? I'll go back and see if I can find him in 1901 now...

In 1901 William's wife is Eunice and he has daughters Bertha 21, Ethel 17 and Maggie 15, all born Ontario.

1911 again - Raymond Oliver is nephew of Thomas E Oliver born Sept 1871 (but he says 1872 in 1901) Ontario and his wife Minerva born July 1877 Ontario.

Can't see any of them on the 1891 census of Canada at the moment but will have another try tomorrow.

[Margaret]

Thanks Kite, I'll have to do some more digging around to see if I can match up any of those names. The William Oliver I have already was born in the late 1840s; he married Elizabeth Emeline Campney in 1870. I have both death certificates - his in 1917 and hers in 1926. They died in the town where I currently live.

I will also have another search tomorrow....wish these people would be consistent with their relationship titles!!

[TomDaley]

Stella J. Oliver is my wife's grandmother. The family story is that her parents Willis W. Oliver and Jennie Knowles both died around 1909 to 1910. Originally I had heard the theory that they had died in an auto accident but 1910 seems a bit early for this sort of tragedy. The family history is that she then went to live with her Grandmother McMaster. We are not sure how the McMaster and Oliver family connect. Stella had four children in Ontario, Canada and two of them are still alive in 2010. We are checking with the aunt and uncle in Canada to see if they have any additional info on the Olivers and what actually happened to them but that is what we know so far about the great-grandparents. Tom

[jlk]

I am also working on this Oliver family. Three brothers - Richard, Edward, & Thomas came to Canada from Devon, England in the mid 1850s.
The answer to the McMaster/Oliver connection is John McMaster who married Eliza Oliver in 1864. Eliza was Willis' aunt.
Tom, did you ever find out what happened to Willis & Jennie? I can't find death certs in Ontario, so perhaps they died elsewhere. In the 1911 census, their 3 children were all with relatives (one only lived to age 2). Son Raymond gave his sister Gladys' name as next-of-kin when he signed up for WW1.