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Last ditch effort for my grandparents

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  • Last ditch effort for my grandparents

    Morning all

    A last ditch effort to discover something about my grandparents coming up.

    The partners in this genealogical crime are John Townsend and Annie Turner, did they ever marry? Where are they from? When where they born? All this (and more) still to be uncovered.


    1919, Lincoln;
    Birth of John Townsend to John Townsend and Annie Townsend, formerly Turner.

    1923, Lincoln;
    Birth of James Townsend, 12/05/1923, parents as above.

    1925, Lincoln
    Birth and death of Joseph Townsend, parents as above.

    1984, Worksop
    Death of James Townsend or Turner dob 12/05/1923, informant John Townsend, brother, resident in Lincoln.

    The 1921-1927 voters roll show John snr and Annie living together in Lincoln at the address shown on the birth certs, 1928 onwards John snr appears to be alone, 1929 he is living elsewhere and the address is unknown, Annie has vanished too.

    Post 1928 is a mystery, a rumour suggests Annie lived with another man, the only document after 1928 to hint at anything is a marriage cert for James in 1945 which states his father is deceased.


    I haven't been able to pinpoint a marriage, James was a ladies man and had kids all over the country but his death cert entry seems to suggest that either his parents were not married (or was he possibly using both names to avoid his whereabouts being discovered by the mothers of his children?)

    I had a search on the 1911 for John and Annie, the only John in Lincoln who is old enough is listed in an institution, there are 3 possibles for Annie but i haven't gone down the route of looking at images. I suspect John and Annie were not together in 1911 so i doubt the expense will answer the question.


    So what next? What do i try (bearing in mind i no longer have an Ancestry sub), the 1911 doesn't look helpful because i know so little about them, no age or pob so the result could be top of the list but i wouldn't know.

    Any suggestions or snippets from anywhere please?
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

    Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
    My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
    My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

  • #2
    its prob no use at all , but there is an Annie Townsend marrying a Harold Reid in Peterborough in 1934.

    BUT

    She wouldnt have married in the name of Townsend ( I doubt) if she never married the other Blokie
    ( thats is FreeBMD)
    Jess

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Jess

      I'm beginning to think that Annie is possibly a middle name, the chap she supposedly went off with was from Lincoln and although i have the name nothing jumps out in the residential directories, he was supposed to own a few lorries and there are a couple of folks who remember the surname connected to transport but again nothing in the directories seems to jump out but it could be later than the dates i have seen.
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

      Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
      My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
      My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

      Comment


      • #4
        Did James have a military record which lists next of kin? Maybe that will name his mother under a different surname?
        Was she a witness at his marriage?
        Last edited by Gwyn in Kent; 17-01-09, 11:25.

        Comment


        • #5
          Just thought...
          If 'the other chap' had a few lorries, perhaps he had a bit of money and left a Will naming Annie. This would at least give you some indication of her whereabouts and when perhaps?

          Comment


          • #6
            Have you looked for a really late marriage, i have a couple who had 6 children, youngest born 1894, married in 1921 in thier 70s, it was the brides second marriage, but her first husband died in 1882

            Sylvia
            Sylvia

            Derbyshire :- Gough, Tomlinson, Fletcher, Shipley, Spencer, Calladine, Rogers, Kerry, Robotham
            Leicestershire:- Gough, Cooper, Underwood, Hearn, Inglehearn
            Staffordshire:- Robotham, Hickinbotham, Hill, Holmes

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Gwynne

              The marriage cert shows his residence as Lincoln, he was in the Royal Signals at the time. I did apply for the military records but was refused them, James is my birth father but the army records office are none to keen to reveal the details because James is not named on my birth cert.

              The name of one witness has always been a problem to me though, the chap connected to the trucks was George Goddard, a witness to the marriage is G. Goddard. Same man? Father and son?

              The other witness name isn't very clear;




              The only John Townsend/Annie turner marriage i found was pre 1900 and in Cambridgeshire so it looks very doubtful and there isn't a likely one post 1928 that i have seen when trawliing the bmd when i had the sub.
              Last edited by Glen in Tinsel Knickers; 17-01-09, 11:45.
              http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

              Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
              My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
              My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

              Comment


              • #8
                Witness surname... Wilbourne ...?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thoughts....

                  Did either the father or the brother whose death you found leave a will?

                  Have you been able to pinpoint anything more recent for the brother who registered the death of his brother? (I can't name them as I leep getting all those Js mixed up!)

                  Sorry, who was in the Roayl Signals?

                  Erm.......when does the 1921 census get released?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Probably totally unconnected but the residence given on the marriage cert is 13 Newport, Lincoln.

                    The 1930 Kellys has a Miss Towsend listed at Newport Manor, Newport, Lincoln.

                    Nothing for John Townsend in residential or business listings, nothing for Annie Turner/Townsend or Goddard, nothing for George Goddard either residential or business but it could be a tad early for Goddard references.
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                    Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                    My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                    My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
                      Thoughts....

                      Did either the father or the brother whose death you found leave a will?

                      Have you been able to pinpoint anything more recent for the brother who registered the death of his brother? (I can't name them as I leep getting all those Js mixed up!)


                      Sorry, who was in the Roayl Signals?

                      Erm.......when does the 1921 census get released?
                      I don't have a positve death ref for the father Merry, the documents suggest sometime between 1928 and 1945 but there are several that could be right although most of the Lincolnshre ones seem to be for either very young or much older chaps.

                      James was in the Royal Signals.

                      The brother who registered the death appears on the electoral rolls at the Lincoln address he gave on the 1984 death cert until 1987 then he vanishes.
                      http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                      Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                      My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                      My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Have you tried Ancestry phone books for the brother?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
                          Have you tried Ancestry phone books for the brother?
                          Can't say that i have Mary.When i had the sub the area wasn't covered late enough.
                          http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                          Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                          My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                          My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Have you been able to look for possible baptism entries for the 3 boys? Sometimes there is additional information.

                            I wonder if Turner was Annie's name due to an existing marriage? IF so, makes hunting for other official documentation for her a bit tricky.

                            Jay
                            Janet in Yorkshire



                            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Baptisms are something i haven't looked for to be honest, mostly because the few times i have made it to Lincoln it's for Mrs G to do her shopper of the year impression! Only Mrs G could travel from Scotland to Lincoln to go shopping
                              The IGI doesn't go late enough, i know that Nixons Court (addy from the birth certs) was just off the High Street, it's now the site of the Waterside shopping centre and within sight of three churches.

                              As for the Turner name being from a previous marriage......
                              http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                              Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                              My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                              My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                A different angle, perhaps BIVRI or the NBI could prove useful;

                                Annie TURNER National Burial Index (Lincolnshire FHS) 2 entries in Lincolnshire between 1950 and 1969

                                Annie TURNER found in Lincolnshire Cemetery Registers 1 entry in Lincolnshire during 1950

                                Annie TURNER National Burial Index (Isle of Axholme FHS) 1 entry in Lincolnshire during 1953

                                Annie Elizabeth TURNER found in National Burial Index (Lincolnshire FHS) 1 entry in Lincolnshire during 1957

                                Annie Maria TURNER National Burial Index (Lincolnshire FHS) 2 entries in Lincolnshire between 1931 and 1946

                                Annie Maria TURNER found in Lincolnshire Cemetery Registers 1 entry in Lincolnshire during 1931

                                Also via FHO.net there is the following;

                                Annie TURNER found in Lincolnshire Monumental Inscriptions 1 entry in Lincolnshire during 1956
                                http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                                Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                                My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                                My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Last one from FHO

                                  Reference Number 14855 Name Annie TURNER Date of Death 24 May 1956 Age 57 Comments a wife & mother Location Nettleham Cemetery.Lincolnshire.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Thanks Mauderby

                                    Certainly one to make a note of for future reference, i wonder if it is the maiden or married name? the 1899ish birth certainly fits a possible timeframe.


                                    It's a shame that the electoral roll was suspended in the war and James' age, he was too young to appear pre war and post war (47-49) he was in Middlesboro', maybe worth an enquiry to Lincoln library for a search on the Lincoln (Newport) address for the years immediately after the war though i fear it was probably rented rooms. Perhaps the Townsend or Turner surname might crop up.
                                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                                    Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                                    My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                                    My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      4 of the others you listed. Dates are for burials
                                      Moggie

                                      7 Sep 1950 Annie TURNER 43 Lincolnshire Lincoln, Canwick Road Cemetery
                                      27 Jan 1969 Annie TURNER 79 Lincolnshire Cleethorpes, Cemetery
                                      6 May 1931 Annie Maria TURNER 71 Lincolnshire Lincoln,St Swithins Cemetery
                                      1 Apr 1946 Annie Maria TURNER 74 Lincolnshire Cleethorpes, Cemetery

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by maudarby View Post
                                        4 of the others you listed. Dates are for burials
                                        Moggie

                                        7 Sep 1950 Annie TURNER 43 Lincolnshire Lincoln, Canwick Road Cemetery
                                        27 Jan 1969 Annie TURNER 79 Lincolnshire Cleethorpes, Cemetery
                                        6 May 1931 Annie Maria TURNER 71 Lincolnshire Lincoln,St Swithins Cemetery
                                        1 Apr 1946 Annie Maria TURNER 74 Lincolnshire Cleethorpes, Cemetery
                                        Thanks for those,
                                        1st, 3rd and 4th can probably be discounted due to age, number two remains a candidate, all subject to the name being Turner at death of course but there doesn't appear to be any listings in either Townsend or Goddard, at least not on the database.
                                        http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                                        Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                                        My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                                        My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                                        Comment

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