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  • Is Cloggie about at all?

    Hi, I was wondering if Cloggie was about at all?

    Hi Cloggie If you're here, you helped me no end a while back with some Dutch bmd sites, and I was wondering if you could translate for me.

    I have the marriage cert for my gg-grandparent's who married in Rotterdam in 1836. All I can read are the names, grooms family at the top & brides at the bottom. I would love to know what it actually says, eg on ours it tells you the witness's, the parish etc etc.

    thanks
    Sandra

  • #2
    If Cloggie isn't about, you might try transcribing it here - or showing us the image. You can sometimes deduce quite a bit of Dutch (especially with a context like that) by comparing with German and English - plus an odd bit of dialect here and there!

    Christine
    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Christine, I'll give it a go.

      It's more of a register entry than a certificate, I downloaded it free from the site Cloggie told me about.

      The marriage is between Johannes Jacobs and Maria Joanna Godfroij

      It looks to me that after his Dad Johannes Hendricus Jacobs name it says 'overseas'??

      and on the next line down after his mother Johanna Geenhuijsen name (different spelling), it looks very much like London to me.

      Of course, I'm probably mistaken, but I'd love to know.

      I hope this comes out ok

      Thanks

      Comment


      • #4
        I think the name you have as Hendricus is just Henricus - i.e. equivalent of Henry.

        The word that looks like London is, I believe only the first half of a word, and I think it's Zonder-. Sonder- in German means special. However - I think (Google) that this is a "false friend" because "Zonder" means "without" (tho', I guess, "special" means "out of the ordinary" - so not so false as one might think! - consider our word "sunder"). It says bewegs means move. Does that mean Zonderbewegs means constant?

        wonende means resident - like wohnen is "to dwell" in German. Gemeente is, like German Gemeinde, a town/district/municipality.

        There's a bit which looks like "Naaister* Meerdegange Dochter van..."
        I put some word-bits into the Google translator, and I think it probably means something like "the next oldest daughter of..." *WRONG - Google reckons that means seamstress (nahen = "to sew" in German).

        to be continued...
        Last edited by Christine in Herts; 16-01-09, 19:10.
        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

        Comment


        • #5
          Woonachtig means resident, as well.

          Gepubliceerd means published, as you might expect.
          Gehuwd does mean married ("Geheiratet" in German)

          t.b.c...
          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

          Comment


          • #6
            Its a long while since I had to learn some Dutch and this is probably a bit archaic but the word that you took to be overseas is overleden which means deceased. Zonderberoep means of no occupation.
            Robert

            Comment


            • #7
              Oooh well done Christine, your better at it than I am!

              Your right about the name, my g-granddad (son of the above couple) was called Johannes Henricus Jacobs b1837. He must have come to London just after 1871, as he's not on the '71 census, but married in St Annes Soho in 1872. He then called himself Henry Jacobs.
              Last edited by Sandra; 16-01-09, 19:12. Reason: spelling

              Comment


              • #8
                Thats interesting, thanks Robert.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Sandra,

                  This is shorter than marriage entries I've seen (which include witnesses), and appears to record the banns + marriage date:

                  Joannes Jacobs, age 25 years, no occupation, adult son of Joannes Henricus Jacobs, deceased, and of Joanna Geenhuysen, no occupation, the first and the last residing within this municipality,

                  And

                  Maria Joanna Godfroy, age 25 years, seamstress, adult daughter of Joannes Godfroy, gardener, both residing in this municipality, and of the late Henrica Weymants.

                  Published the 7th and 14th of February 1836.
                  Married the 17th of February 1836.

                  No. 66

                  (stamp: CIVIL REGISTRY OF ROTTERDAM)
                  Sarah

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    zoon = son (top paragraph)

                    beide = both (like German)

                    In my Dutch-English dictionary, meerderheid = majority. Does it just mean "of full age"?

                    ...
                    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hurrah! - I managed to work out adult - eventually - before reading Cloggie's translation!

                      Christine

                      PS
                      Beroep is close (phonetically) to Beruf (German) = calling = profession/occupation.
                      Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just to say the bride was Maria Johanna Godfroij. Her parents were Johannis Godfroij and Hendrika Wijmans. The spellings of the names varies.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sandra View Post
                          and on the next line down after his mother Johanna Geenhuijsen name (different spelling), it looks very much like London to me.
                          Yes, Geenhuijsen/Geenhuysen/Geenhuizen are all different versions of the same name.
                          "y" is the old-fashioned version of "ij" and likewise "uijs" is an old-fashioned version of "uiz"

                          the next word, which i think you thought looked like London?, is "zonder" which means "without" as in "without occupation" (unemployed)
                          Last edited by Cloggie; 16-01-09, 19:30.
                          Sarah

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Christine in Herts View Post
                            zoon = son (top paragraph)

                            beide = both (like German)

                            In my Dutch-English dictionary, meerderheid = majority. Does it just mean "of full age"?

                            ...
                            yes, "meerderjarig" literally means "of major years" (as opposed to "minor"), so: of full age/adult. Well done Christine!
                            Sarah

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thank you, Thank you, Thank you

                              I did think that it wasn't quite a certificate, and it was free. But its brilliant, still has all the info I need. The good thing is that it also includes the mothers maiden names. Something our certs don't.

                              If anyone else is reading this, and has Dutch rellies, I got the info from the site Cloggie gave to me ages ago

                              Gemeentearchief Rotterdam

                              Thanks again Christine, Robert & Cloggie

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Sandra View Post
                                Just to say the bride was Maria Johanna Godfroij. Her parents were Johannis Godfroij and Hendrika Wijmans. The spellings of the names varies.
                                Spelling can vary a lot on Dutch documents as there are multiple possible spellings for the same sounds. So Weymans would be pronounced the same as Wijmans. Godfroy is the same as Godfroij (ij and y are the same).
                                Sarah

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Sandra View Post
                                  I did think that it wasn't quite a certificate, and it was free. But its brilliant, still has all the info I need. The good thing is that it also includes the mothers maiden names. Something our certs don't.
                                  You're unlikely to find (or need) official "certificates" for Dutch records. They're usually copies/scans of the original entries in the civil or parish registers (with original signatures). And women are always named by their maiden name.
                                  Sarah

                                  Comment

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