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  • Very confusing certificate

    Hello all

    These are the facts as i have them.

    1911 - William Henry Cox (father) Gertrude Annie Cox (mother) Harold William Hill (stepson) William Henry Cox (son) Gladys May Cox (daughter) there are 3 more kids after these aswell.

    William Henry Cox (snr) married Gertrude Annie Hill 1908.

    I purchased the certificate of birth for Gladys May Cox to see who the mother was for both her and William as i was sure it wasnt Gertrude as they didnt marry untill 1908 and William and Gladys were born 1900 and 1902.

    I magine my surprise when i recieved it this morning and the mother was down as Gertrude Cox nee Hill.

    Now if anyone can help me work this out i would be most greatful as im a little stumped at the moment.

    Danny
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528974734

  • #2
    Most likely explanation is that either WIlliam or Gertrude were not free to marry when the children were born, but were living together as man and wife and registered the births as such. Then in 1908 previous partner or objecting parents died or perhaps they just never got round to marriage until then. My 2x gt grandparents lived together and registered children as if married and didn't marry until 38 years after birth of first child! The only possible reason I've found is that when they first got together John was an apprentice and not allowed to marry (doesn't explain the long delay though.)
    Judith passed away in October 2018

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    • #3
      That does sound like the most likely explanation.
      Can anybody see William and Gertrude on the 1901 census? I just want to see if the address matches the birth cert or whether they moved.

      I have the address in 1902 as 17 Grimstone street Wolverhampton.

      Danny
      http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528974734

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      • #4
        I would imagine Mr Hill didn't die until 1908!

        OC

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        • #5
          Hi OC

          I dont surpose you can see a possible marriage for Gertrude to a Mr Hill?

          I did see one in WestBrom 1894 (i think) between a Gertrude Armstrong and John Hill.

          Danny
          http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528974734

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          • #6
            How old was Harold in 1911? and where born? There is a 7 month ol Harold Hill born in Hanley, Staffs, with 25 year old mother Gertrude livng with grandparents (surname Poole) in Stoke on Trent in 1901. Pehaps Harold was Gertrude's from previous marriage, William was William's and THEN hey got together and had Grace.
            Judith passed away in October 2018

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            • #7
              Harold was 15 on the 1911 census and was born 1895 in wolverhampton.

              Im pretty sure this is the family on the 1901 census but with Williams name down as Walter for some strange reason.

              William H Cox age 29 born Wolverhampton brewers labourer
              wife Gertrude age 22 born Wolverhampton
              son Walter 8 months born Wolverhampton
              living with parents William J Cox age 66 born Liverpool
              mother Margaret 65 born Bideford, Devon

              William's occupation matches that of the 1911 census ia have them on.

              Danny
              http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528974734

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              • #8
                How old were William & Gertrude in 1911?
                Moggie

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                • #9
                  Just seen your previous post.
                  Gertrude would only have been 16 when Harold was born.
                  Moggie

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                  • #10
                    William was 42 and Gertrude was 32.

                    The age for William is slightly out.
                    On Gladys May's birth cert it states William as a Furnaceman.

                    Danny
                    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528974734

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                    • #11
                      I think Harold is living with Gertrude's parents in 1901:
                      Class: RG13; Piece: 2680; Folio: 68; Page: 17


                      I think it's likely that they just 'shacked up' together, then decided to marry when (possibly) her disapproving parents died or something.

                      I have many a relative who married the other parent of their offspring after the effect. Happens all the time now lol
                      Some, like my GGGrandmother, had 6 children with a man who wasn't her husband yet on the cert she is down as his wife, formally her husbands name, nee her maiden name! She never married their father.


                      To add to the theory:
                      Deaths Mar 1908
                      HILL James George 73
                      Wolverhampton 6b 386

                      Deaths Mar 1904
                      HILL Rosa Helena 58
                      Wolverhampton 6b 389
                      Last edited by Orangeblossom; 05-01-09, 20:46.
                      Tracy

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                      • #12
                        Hello Tracy

                        Thankyou for that, that sounds like a very possible reason.

                        Im going to make note of that and order the marriage cert for William and Gertrude.

                        The only thing that plays on my mind is that i thought that Gertrude's maiden name wasnt Hill as she had a son named Harold Hill and on the 1911 census he is down in the Cox household as Step-son.

                        Danny
                        http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528974734

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Given that on the certificates you do have, it doesn't have a 'formally' name, I'd say her maiden name was Hill.

                          Once you have the marriage cert, you will know for certain. You will also be able to cross-reference the 1901 and deaths I gave you for her father.
                          Tracy

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                          • #14
                            Given that on the certificates you do have, it doesn't have a 'formally' name, I'd say her maiden name was Hill.

                            Did you mean it doesn't say "late Hill". If it says "formerly Hill" then Hill would (should!) be her maiden name.

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                            • #15
                              Thankyou for your help Tracy.

                              You have give me something to mull over whilst i wait on the cert.

                              Danny
                              http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528974734

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