Beetley, Norfolk. 1790 Marriage Banns query.

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

I spent an hour or two searching through freereg this afternoon, discovering that the marriage between my 4xgrt grandparents is a second marriage for the groom.

On the freereg transcription of the marriage entry there is a comment;

Notes Banns: both signed x. Details of banns also on form

Apart from knowing John Curson (widower) married Mary Neave (spinster) in 1790 and his first wife was probably Mary Unknown d.1785 i can't say anything more to help look further backwards or sideways. I don't think that they made it to the 1841 census so no idea of ages.

Will the details of banns reveal anything useful at all?

[Little Nell]

My experience of banns is that they give the 3 dates on which they were called, the names of the groom and bride and which parish(es) they come from. This may or may not be useful to you.

[Olde Crone Holden]

One experience of Banns is that the lazy Vicar used the Banns Book to record the actual marriage and let everyone sign it - bride, groom and eleven witnesses, all with their relationship to the happy couple.

As it was a double wedding - two brothers - - I got a total of 24 witness signatures, although most were doubles, and their relationships. As this was in the 1770s, it was hugely useful.

Short answer...you just don't know WHAT will be on an original record until you look at it!

*Only Glen could have relatives in a place called BEETLEY*

OC

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

Thanks Nell

John would appear to have been in the parish for some time, there are several baptisms for children to John Curson and Mary (last in 1783), a burial for Mary Curson (wife of John) in 1785 then a gap to a marriage for a John Curson (widower) to Mary Neave in 1790 plus subsequent births from 1791 onwards.

Possible deaths for Mary on freebmd in 1837 and 1845, both in Mitford reg district.
Freereg seems to show the 1845 burial could be in North Elmham and for a 15 year old. Nothing obvious to tally with the 1837 death though.

One burial in 1827 at Beetley for Mary aged 61 looks promising but there are baptisms for children to the second John/Mary marriage after 1800 so i'm not sure.

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

*Only Glen could have relatives in a place called BEETLEY*

OC

PMSL OC,

Offhand i can't remember exactly but i seem to think that Holden woman from my other thread was born in Bintry/Bintree. Now be a good family member and help a possible poor lowly distant rellie by looking in the '61 for Wm Elmer abt 1817, North Elmham with a wife called Ann would you? Should be in or around North Elmham throughout the census if that helps. ;)

Back to the original names!!
The second marriage is a Curson/Neave combination, sometimes transcribed as Neve or Nave. In 1760 there is also a possibly connected marriage but different parish, Christmas Curson to Elizabeth Nave.........

erm, Christmas....Tinsel, he must be one of mine :D:D

[Phoenix]

*Only Glen could have relatives in a place called BEETLEY*

OC

Well, not quite only Glen. I think I have some living relatives there.

It sounds from the wording as if the parish has a combined banns and marriage register.

[tugman]

Beetley transcribed

Hiya
Freereg Beetley transcribed AT's only 1668-1812.
This means that there could be missing names from the PR's.

Mary wife of John Curson burial 25 Mar 1785 St. Mary Magdalene Beetley.

John Curson widower married Mary Nave 26th Oct 1790 St. Mary Magdalene Beetley [this marriage after banns read] Freereg does not transcribe banns.

There is a John Curson marry in 1778 at Stanfield to Mary MIDDLEDIDGE

STANFIELD, on the Fakenham road, 5½ miles N.W. by N. of East Dereham

BEETLEY, a village and parish, 3 miles N. by W. of East Dereham
So possible that John Curson of 1778 is the same John Curson widower in 1790

All the best
tugman

[tugman]

Hi again
You could ask Freereg if they would ask the transcriber of Beetley to maybe give you some more information on the Banns.

tugman

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

Hiya
Freereg Beetley transcribed AT's only 1668-1812.
This means that there could be missing names from the PR's.

Mary wife of John Curson burial 25 Mar 1785 St. Mary Magdalene Beetley.

John Curson widower married Mary Nave 26th Oct 1790 St. Mary Magdalene Beetley [this marriage after banns read] Freereg does not transcribe banns.

There is a John Curson marry in 1778 at Stanfield to Mary MIDDLEDIDGE

STANFIELD, on the Fakenham road, 5½ miles N.W. by N. of East Dereham

BEETLEY, a village and parish, 3 miles N. by W. of East Dereham
So possible that John Curson of 1778 is the same John Curson widower in 1790

All the best
tugman

Thanks tugman

I was working on the theory that John mentioned in the 1785 burial is the same John as the 1790 marriage, i might be wrong there but for now there isn't much to prove or disprove the possibility.

Based on the 1778 marriage you mention then potentially the following baptism entries at Beetley could be children from that marriage, also indicating the family moved a couple of miles along the road too;

Mary 1779
William 1781
John 1783


Now this might just be sheer co-incedence but NRO have a document that might be worth investigating

Records of the Manor of Cursons in Stanfield
1570-1960;
Court books and other papers

[tugman]

Hiya
Records of the Manor of Cursons in Stanfield, yes that could worth a look. If you can get to Norwich.
Curson's moved to Fakenham in 1780's also. These Curson's i was doing for a man 82 yrs of age in USA. We thought we were connected but name had been wronging entered. We did find out a lot on this family.
tugman

[tugman]

Hi again
Put the kettle on & have a read of this on Cursons.
Full text of "Amye Robsart and the Earl of Leycester : a critical inquiry into the authenticity of the various statements in relation to the death of Amye Robsart, and of the libels on the Earl of Leycester, with a vindication of the Earl by his neph

A bit long but it is cold outside lol.
tugman

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

Oh yes, a comfy seat needed for anything on that site, articles do tend to need several hours of attention!!

Harking back to the Middledidge reference, i did look twice at that one, possibly mistranscribed variant of Middleage or Middleditch.

In my tree i have a Curson/Elmer marriage and an Elmer/Middleage marriage. Both are in North Elmham, 1812 and 1817 respectively though i haven't been able to confirm the two Elmer families in the village are related to each other as yet.

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

Right then, back to the real crunch now.

How will i know if it is the same John for the two marriages?