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Another Question About The Chadwicks

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  • Another Question About The Chadwicks

    Or one in particular - William Henry.

    It was a family legend that William Henry was born in Malta and that his father had murdered an officer whilst on duty in Corfu - there is a newspaper report about this, however it does not specify a christian name so this is something which I cannot corroborate. I also cannot corroborate that William Henry was born in Malta as I cannot get a birth certificate for him, even though on the censuses from 1861 (cannot find him on 1871 census) onwards he is down as being from Malta twice, Corpe (which could be Corfu) and Military British Subject which probably means he was born whilst his father was in the army.



    In 1861, he is an 6 year old inmate at the Leeds Ragged and Industrial School - no idea why at all or even how he got to Leeds from Malta/Corfu. The Ragged School records are only available from 1880 at the West Yorkshire Archives and nothing exists before that date. The only reason I can think of why he was there is that he was an orphan.

    What I would like to know is could he just be sent to Leeds (as just somewhere to send him to) by the army and put into the ragged school or would it have been more likely that his parents were from Leeds and he was sent back to Leeds as he may have had family there.

    I know by his marriage certificate (Original catholic marriage certificate) that his parents names were John and Mary. He actually got married in Stockport in 1877 (think I might have to get the official registration for this to corroborate a few things) so I am also not too sure how he got from Leeds to Stockport. He is not on the 1871 census anywhere so I can't say whether he was still in Leeds at that point either. In 1881 he was in Duke Street, Castleford in Yorkshire, 1891 he was in Oldham and 1901 in Leeds which is where he stayed for the rest of his life.

    Once again, any help would be greatly appreciated for this enigma of a family

  • #2
    Do you know what rank his father held in the Army? I would have thought that the orphans of, say, officers and above ranks, would have been sent to military boarding schools. I think it is unlikely the army would have shipped the boy home to put him in a Ragged school.

    In my experience - which isn't much, in this field - Ragged and Industrial Schools were used mainly as somewhere to put children who were out of control, in someone's opinion! Remeber that in Victorian times, an orphan was someone whose father was dead, not necessarily his mother.

    If it was thought by some busybody, that his mother wasn't looking after him properly, or couldn't cope with him, he could have been put into the Ragged School. This needn't necessarily have been in the area she lived in. the Victorians had funny ideas and believed in removing children from familiar surroundings and bad influences (in their eyes) to enable the child to have a fresh start.

    None of this helps you though. Have you identified when his mother died?

    OC

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    • #3
      Why can't you get a birth cert for him?
      Click here to order your BMD certificates for England and Wales for only £9.25 General Register Office

      Do you have camera? Click here to see if you can help Places of Worship

      Jacob Sudders born in Prussia c.1775 married Alice Pidgeon in 1800 in Gorelston. Do you know where Jacob was born?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Pippa Doll View Post
        Why can't you get a birth cert for him?
        Because he is down as being born in Malta -there is no record on the overseas BMD's or on the Maltese BMD for him - have also investigated Corfu regarding a possible birth there and no joy.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thinking logically which I never do - is there anything on his father's army record to indicate where/when he was born. Also if he was Catholic was he baptised in a local church rather than one attached to the British base?
          Click here to order your BMD certificates for England and Wales for only £9.25 General Register Office

          Do you have camera? Click here to see if you can help Places of Worship

          Jacob Sudders born in Prussia c.1775 married Alice Pidgeon in 1800 in Gorelston. Do you know where Jacob was born?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
            Do you know what rank his father held in the Army? I would have thought that the orphans of, say, officers and above ranks, would have been sent to military boarding schools. I think it is unlikely the army would have shipped the boy home to put him in a Ragged school.

            Sorry, I have absolutely no idea what rank his father was - as I said, its family legend that his father (John) was hung for shooting an officer

            In my experience - which isn't much, in this field - Ragged and Industrial Schools were used mainly as somewhere to put children who were out of control, in someone's opinion! Remeber that in Victorian times, an orphan was someone whose father was dead, not necessarily his mother.

            If it was thought by some busybody, that his mother wasn't looking after him properly, or couldn't cope with him, he could have been put into the Ragged School. This needn't necessarily have been in the area she lived in. the Victorians had funny ideas and believed in removing children from familiar surroundings and bad influences (in their eyes) to enable the child to have a fresh start.

            None of this helps you though. Have you identified when his mother died?

            OC
            No, because there are loads of John and Mary Chadwicks on the census, and I have nothing at all to identify them with (no dates of birth, no idea of where they were born or even a marriage certificate, the only reason I know their names is because their names were on the marriage certificate of William Henry - this is the original Catholic one which doesn't have profession on either - am going to have to get the registry office one also I think)

            Thanks for trying to help though, It's taken me nearly 3 years to get to this point with them, I'll keep plodding

            Comment


            • #7
              Of course there isn't any record on Maltese BMD as civil reg hadn't started then - you see how slow the cogs are turning!

              This leads me to wonder if he was baptised at a local church and whether or not Mary was an anglicised version of his mother's name as she may have been a local girl.

              Have you found any hint of any siblings for him?
              Click here to order your BMD certificates for England and Wales for only £9.25 General Register Office

              Do you have camera? Click here to see if you can help Places of Worship

              Jacob Sudders born in Prussia c.1775 married Alice Pidgeon in 1800 in Gorelston. Do you know where Jacob was born?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Pippa Doll View Post
                Thinking logically which I never do - is there anything on his father's army record to indicate where/when he was born. Also if he was Catholic was he baptised in a local church rather than one attached to the British base?
                I have checked the Malta Registry Office (don't think its called that but where all the BMD's are) and nothing there, as to army records, unless I know a birth date, they cannot help me :(

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you see my post above I realised why there wouldn't be anything the Maltese Register Office. I can't remember if it was 1863 or 1864 when Civil Reg was started in Malta.

                  The reason I am thinking anglicised name for Mary is that one OH's grandfather's was in the RA and married a local girl called Serafina. It was anglicised to Sarah when she came back to the UK.
                  Click here to order your BMD certificates for England and Wales for only £9.25 General Register Office

                  Do you have camera? Click here to see if you can help Places of Worship

                  Jacob Sudders born in Prussia c.1775 married Alice Pidgeon in 1800 in Gorelston. Do you know where Jacob was born?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pippa Doll View Post
                    Of course there isn't any record on Maltese BMD as civil reg hadn't started then - you see how slow the cogs are turning!

                    This leads me to wonder if he was baptised at a local church and whether or not Mary was an anglicised version of his mother's name as she may have been a local girl.

                    Have you found any hint of any siblings for him?
                    Nope, nothing at all, all I literally have is just his Father and mother's first names and the surname.

                    I think you might be right though about his mother being a local girl but I realise now I must send off for the registry office copy of William Henry's marriage certificate just to at least see if John is down as either being deceased and what his occupation was - I will not get any further without this information.

                    Thanks very much for looking though - I think Maltese BMD's started about the time William Henry was born but no joy unfortunately :(

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I was trying to find a list of specific regiments that went to Malta but it seemed to get really confusing!

                      A curious thing to find though was around 1800 Irish prisoners were given the chance to join the British Army to gain their freedom and then sent to Malta. I wonder if this happened later on (just thinking about William marrying in a Catholic church)?
                      Click here to order your BMD certificates for England and Wales for only £9.25 General Register Office

                      Do you have camera? Click here to see if you can help Places of Worship

                      Jacob Sudders born in Prussia c.1775 married Alice Pidgeon in 1800 in Gorelston. Do you know where Jacob was born?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pippa Doll View Post
                        I was trying to find a list of specific regiments that went to Malta but it seemed to get really confusing!

                        A curious thing to find though was around 1800 Irish prisoners were given the chance to join the British Army to gain their freedom and then sent to Malta. I wonder if this happened later on (just thinking about William marrying in a Catholic church)?
                        Now that is a thought - I wonder where I could find information about that, but I tried tracking the regiments in and out of Malta at that time, and like you, I found it quite confusing the ins and outs - I also looked at the ins and outs from Corfu and there were quite a few women and children going in and out too.

                        Tomorrow I will send off for the GRO wedding certificate - I think that might help me quite a bit

                        Thank you for all your help pippa - you've really made me think about different options

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